Is Islam true?.

[total relism]

Here are some debates that Muslims will no longer debate on, is Islam true, or was Muhammad a true prophet. These and many other reasons, I cannot accept the Koran or Islam as being true.

Osama Abdallah vs. David Wood: "Was Muhammad a True Prophet?"
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2008...-wood-was.html
Sheikh Jalal Abualrub vs. David Wood: "Is Muhammad a Prophet
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2008...d-wood-is.html
Who Was Muhammad? Qureshi vs. Wood
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2009...i-vs-wood.html
Bassam Zawadi vs. David Wood: “Does the Evidence Show That Islam Is True?”
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2008...wood-does.html
Osama Abdallah vs. Nabeel Qureshi: “Is the Qur’an Miraculous?”
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2009...s-qureshi.html
Ali Ataie vs. David Wood: “Who Was Muhammad? The Christian and Muslim Perspectives”
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2008...e-who-was.html
Omar Bakri & Shah Jalal Hussain vs. Sam Shamoun & David Wood: “Who Was Muhammad?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUGTZOYeF3U


Here is a great website that contains hundreds of debates on all subjects.
http://www.answeringmuslims.com

You will find on these debates, that Islam cannot be defended logically. One cannot remain Muslims and watch all these debates without ignoring alot of info.


For some of the reasons I reject Islam besides the info in debates, read post 16,20,23,50,58 ,59,77,145,163,207,227,250,344]

and my twc thread here
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=531553

[Sarmatian]

There is no spoon.

[Kadagar_AV]

Sorry, I very much resist living my life after some pedophile living in a desert some couple of hundred years ago.

Civilization has evolved since, you know? I'm not talking about USA, but the civilized world who have culture enough to separate religion from state.

At the end of the day, no one cares what you believe in, as long as it doesn't affect your work or participation in society at large.

BTW, all your links are failing: Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist.

[HoreTore]

Likr all other religions, your answer to that question depends on who you ask.

A Muslim will say that his god is true.
A christian will say his is true.
A jew will say his god is true.

A non-believer, however, will say that none of them are true(or at least he won't acknowledge them to be true). If a non-believer said the gods of the religions were true, that would make him a believer, wouldn't it?

All these religions look irrational to me. Hence, I am a non-believer. That, however, does not mean that those who disagree with me do so because they are irrational. Those who have found a god are as rational as the rest of us.

[Fragony]

I'd say Islam has some truths when strictly taken as a social system, I am not religious. For me the costs kinda outweight the benefit though. Welcome to the backroom by the way.

[Kadagar_AV]

Likr all other religions, your answer to that question depends on who you ask.

A Muslim will say that his god is true.
A christian will say his is true.
A jew will say his god is true.

A non-believer, however, will say that none of them are true(or at least he won't acknowledge them to be true). If a non-believer said the gods of the religions were true, that would make him a believer, wouldn't it?

All these religions look irrational to me. Hence, I am a non-believer. That, however, does not mean that those who disagree with me do so because they are irrational. Those who have found a god are as rational as the rest of us.

DUDE, before replying at least try and fact check if you want to be taken seriously. None of his sources works, you MIGHT want to at least pretend to be interested before you start sprouting your propaganda.

[Hax]

This thread is hilarious.

[Kadagar_AV]

This thread is hilarious.

You can't accuse me of being unable to multitask though.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

This is the blog in question:

http://www.answeringmuslims.com/

Yawn - I can't even be bothered.

[total relism]

BTW, all your links are failing: Sorry, the page you were looking for in this blog does not exist.

Ty, how do I fix that?. But if your interested just go on that page, hit debates, than look for the titles i posted. great debates if your interested.

Welcome to the backroom by the way.

Ty

[Husar]

If muslims won't debate this, why would I want to answer them? Surely they won't even ask me about it.

[Hax]

Why did you even make this thread?

[total relism]

Why did you even make this thread?

well I watched this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLKarYXjG4c

I think many in america [were I live] are so politically correct that they do not see the dangers of Islam. I also have studied the koran/islam and wish for people to at least have the info to have a educated understanding of the negatives of it, its truth claims. I also like to discus/debate subjects such as this one.

[Kadagar_AV]

well I watched this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLKarYXjG4c

I think many in america [were I live] are so politically correct that they do not see the dangers of Islam. I also have studied the koran/islam and wish for people to at least have the info to have a educated understanding of the negatives of it, its truth claims. I also like to discus/debate subjects such as this one.

I'm interested, and have some sources of my own.

To introduce yourself, why dont you make a new thread explaining what YOU think, and let us discuss it :)

[total relism]

I'm interested, and have some sources of my own.

To introduce yourself, why dont you make a new thread explaining what YOU think, and let us discuss it :)

I think Islam is a false religion, false belief, I think Muhammad was a false prophet, who elevated 7th century pagan beliefs and local moon deity allah to religious single god status.

[total relism]

For example
pre -Islamic Arabia-human teachings
Muhammad took 7th century Arabian culture and elevated it to religious status pre Islamic Jewish monotheism, many non biblical apocrypha teachings found in Koran of Jesus clay birds to life speaking at birth [bible says his first miracle was in john 2.11 as adult], Mary giving birth under tree, 5 prayers, pray towards mecca, fast of Ramadan,circling the ka'bah,dietary laws clothing shirke? Chief authority civil rights,woman's veil, woman wear black ,men wear white, virgins in heaven ka'bah was holiest site in pre Islamic Arabia, jinn, lunar calender,the acount of cain and abel came from pre islamic jewish sources, all done by pre Islamic pagans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91hXGWrU6j4
http://www.amazon.com/Understanding-.../dp/0310248124
Mohamed just brought his local tribe god in Arabia Allah to a higher status there were many gods in Arabia at the time he just brought his local tribes already existing moon god to higher status.
that is why they have a crescent moon thats Allah the local pagan deity of Arabia
http://www.christianministriesintl.org/resources.html the religion of Islam
word Muslim used in pre Islamic Arabia and story of sun setting in mirkey water from pre islam.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91hXGWrU6j4HYPERLINK "https://www.youtube.com/watch?

[Fragony]

well I watched this video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLKarYXjG4c

I think many in america [were I live] are so politically correct that they do not see the dangers of Islam. I also have studied the koran/islam and wish for people to at least have the info to have a educated understanding of the negatives of it, its truth claims. I also like to discus/debate subjects such as this one.

You are absolutely right. 70% of the mosks in the US that were investigated by the FBI advocated violence against non-muslims. I am not even going to bother linking anything.

[Montmorency]

[spankythehippo]

Are we responding with videos now? Here's my contribution.

[total relism]

You are absolutely right. 70% of the mosks in the US that were investigated by the FBI advocated violence against non-muslims. I am not even going to bother linking anything.

agreed, that is what koran says to do.


Islam is only religion in world that has mandate violence against non believers verse 9.5
unbelievers are enemies 4.101
fight against them until idolatry is no more and gods religion reigns supreme 2.192-93
Muhammad is to make war with nonbelievers and deal sternly with them 66.9
Sahih Muslim 33—“I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah.”
Qur’an 5:51—O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
non believers will be known by there looks, and will be sieged by there feet 55.41
large numbers of mass killings by allah towards unbelievers in koran
god tells Muhammad to make war on unbelievers and hypocrites and to deal rigorously with them 9.73-74
make war on infidels who who live around you 9.123
god will strike off the heads and fingertips of unbelievers,if any believer turns his back to infidels on the march,he will receive wrath from god and hell fire 8.15-16
make war on idolaters until islam reins supreme 8.29-40
dont let unbelievers think they will ever get away,muster against them all men and Calvary strike terror into the enemies of god 8.57-60
make war with unbelievers 9.1-13 unless they join the faith
fight against unbelievers who have been given scripture and do not believe [jews Christians] until they pay tribute and are subdued 9.29-31
[Koran: 47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them
“I have been ordered to fight with the people until they say none has the right to be worshiped but allah” vol 4 book 52 hadith 196 Muhammad
believers are told to not be friends with non-believers 60.1 and to not show them kindness 60 8-9 believers do not be friends with jews or Christians 5.51 5.57 believers do not be friends with jews or Christians 5.51 5.57 it is evil to be friends with unbelievers 5 80-82
jews Christians are perverse 9.29-30
Qur’an 98:6—Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islam, the Qur'an and Prophet Muhammad) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikun will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.

Qur’an 9:123—O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness.
Qur’an 48:29—Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves.
those that make war against allah or Muhammad shall be slain or crucified 5.33
if anyone thinks god will not give victory to Muhammad they should hang themselves 22.15-16
a son killed for his unbelief 18.75-18.82
believers will kill,and be killed for the cause of god 9.111
Muhammad was called to rose believers to fight 8.62-66
a call to fight any who break their oath with islam or who conspire to banish Muhammad9.13
go to war well armed or ill equipped to march and fight for the cause of allah 9.41
true believers will beg to go to war 9.43-47
for cristising islam your fingers are chopped off than your had than you go to hell 8.10-13
those who do mischief cut there hands and feet from opposite sides and crucify them 5.33 Muhammad himself did so to jews vol 8 book 82 hadith 795
about 100 times jihad is mentioned in hadiths with sword war or military effort,at the end he mentions jihad within the spiritual struggle once.
when Muslims die in jihad mosque celebrate wedding not funeral because he is know married in haven to his hours in paradise family celebrates. [in middle east]
[Koran: 47.4] So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them
Muhammad told believers to fight them till they convert paradise for anyone who dies in war vol 4 book 53 hadith 586
Sahih Muslim 4366—It has been narrated by ‘Umar b. al-Khattab that he heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.

Not sure what you think this video does? It does nothing to make Islam true, in fact this guy contradicts the Koran by saying the bible is false.

when Muslims claim the bible has contradictions, they go against Muhammad who believed in previous scripture
Also the koran in dozens of places says the bible ot and gospels of NT at his time 600 ad, that they were the word of god and were true in what they say. Yet the bible in 600 ad is same as today, so you cant claim bad translation. So how can they both be true? the koran has to be wrong on this because if it were right, it would prove koran wrong anyways.
The koran itself says man cannot change the words of allah, the koran says the torah and gospel cannot be corrupted by man, yet you claim the gospel has been corrupted you contradict your own koran by claiming the bible is corrupted, read your own koran 6.115 and 18.27.
allah promised jesus his followers will have power over those that try to corrupt his words. 40 70-72
61.14 says O you who have believed, be supporters of Allah , as when Jesus, the son of Mary, said to the disciples, "Who are my supporters for Allah ?" The disciples said, "We are supporters of Allah ." And a faction of the Children of Israel believed and a faction disbelieved. So We supported those who believed against their enemy, and they became dominant.
you cannot believe in some parts of scripture but not others 2.84-85 173-175 or you will go to hell
believers are to believe in all scripture 42.15
have faith in previous scripture formerly reveled 4.135-137
10.94 koran says to ask people who have read scripture before you
jews at the time of Muhammad are said to have gods own word in the torah 5 42-44
jews Christians were reading true scripture at time of Muhammad 2.113-114
4.46-jews twisting words of Muhammad not ot we here and disobey also 15.90-91
allah and those who have been given the book, have one and the same god ,Muslims believe in what was reveled to jews and Christians before Muhammad 29.46-49
gospel ot gods word 62,5-8 61.1-8 22.78-end of sura 20.131-135 ot moses called previous scripture and truth, the Israelite have had gods word 45 14-17 6.154 17.1-3 37 113-126 moses and Israelites were given scripture as a guide 40.52-53
psalms and torah are scripture 21.104-106 allah is author of torah
the torah[what was given to moses] is same as koran 28.48-50
scripture given before koran 34.31 28.51-55
scripture apostles given to all people 35.19-27
issac and jacob were given the book from allah 29.27-28
scripture previously given to jews Christians 6.19-22 in line with Koranic teachings
scripture was given to ot believers 6.83-90 we are told to follow them 6.91-93
Muslims are told to trust and get truth from previous scripture [jews]
Koran reveled to Abraham Issac Jacob Jesus Moses 3.84-85
some ot jews believed in Muhammad 4 .52 -56
Muslims must be inconsistent believing gospels are not accurate and same times accepting information from gospel of Thomas and others written far later.


koran confirms earlier ot and gospel teachings
Koran makes almost no references to ot while nt does hundreds of times
nothing new in koran that was not taught to earlier generations 41.42-44
no change though time in god ot nt islam 48.23
koran confirms ot law and gospel 46 10-14 4 47-50 2.38-43 koran came and confirmed both the torah and gospal 5.47-48 2.91-92 96-98 101 3.1-6
jews and Christians that receive scripture and observe it will be blessed 5.65-66 68-69
the koran was given to moses 25.33-38 32.21-26
koran says it contains previous scripture [the bible] 35.31-33
issac and jacob were given the book from allah 29.27-28
allah and those who have been given the book, have one and the same god ,Muslims believe in what was reveled to jews and Christians before Muhammad 29.46-49
the book was given to moses 28.43
the torah[what was given to moses] is same as koran 28.48-50
koran foretold in previous scripture ot 26.193-205
Muhammad is said to be described in ot and gospel 7.157-158
scripture previously given to jews Christians 6.19-22 in line with Koranic teachings
scripture was given to ot believers 6.83-90 we are told to follow them 6.91-93
koran confirms earlier scripture ot-gospal 6.91-93 12.111-end of chapter 10.36-38
Muslims must be inconsistent believing gospels are not accurate and same times accepting information from gospel of Thomas and others written far later.


Also the claim Jesus was not god as taught in Nt only works on videos like these,not in debates.

Jesus was the worst possible teacher ever [according to Muslims] because all his followers [the apostles] and earliest Christian worshiped him as god from the beginning, in scholarly debates the idea that Jesus never claimed to be god or the nt does not teach so never ends well for the Muslim.

Here are a few
James White vs. Jalal Abualrub: "Does the New Testament Teach that Jesus Is God?"
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2008...-does-new.html
James White and Farhan Qureshi, "Did Jesus Claim to be God"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XARqD0LmqWM

[Fragony]

Laugh all you want but the OP has a point, there really aren't enough deers in the world for the amount of the bambi-eyes I would need to defend islam. They would get extinct.

[Hax]

Let me just say this: Islam is nothing more than a mould (I don't mean a fungus). If you think it's a horrible violent desert ideology (interestingly, early Christianity and Judaism fit that idea much more, as Islam was developed in a cosmopolitan environment), that's okay. If you believe Muhammad was a proto-feminist, that's okay too. If you believe he and the early Muslims were socialists, that's okay too.

Don't forget that most of the things we know about Muhammad date from over a hundred to two-hundred years after his death. What makes him interesting as a character is not so much what he did or said, but what different kinds of Muslims think he did or said.

The question "is Islam true?" is a question that only works when you're actively trying to look for the truth. Personally, I'm not interested in that at all. I would much rather look at how many different kinds of people hold vastly differing opinions about what Islam is and still all regard themselves as Muslims. Confronted with this diversity within the religious framework itself, we can't possibly say something such as "Islam is x".

I also have studied the koran/islam and wish for people to at least have the info to have a educated understanding of the negatives of it,

Can you read Arabic? Aramaic? Hebrew? Syriac? Greek? In order to fully understand the Qur‘ân in its historical context, knowledge of interaction between religions in the Arabian peninsula is absolutely vital.

[total relism]

Let me just say this: Islam is nothing more than a mould (I don't mean a fungus). If you think it's a horrible violent desert ideology (interestingly, early Christianity and Judaism fit that idea much more, as Islam was developed in a cosmopolitan environment), that's okay. If you believe Muhammad was a proto-feminist, that's okay too. If you believe he and the early Muslims were socialists, that's okay too.

Don't forget that most of the things we know about Muhammad date from over a hundred to two-hundred years after his death. What makes him interesting as a character is not so much what he did or said, but what different kinds of Muslims think he did or said.

The question "is Islam true?" is a question that only works when you're actively trying to look for the truth. Personally, I'm not interested in that at all. I would much rather look at how many different kinds of people hold vastly differing opinions about what Islam is and still all regard themselves as Muslims. Confronted with this diversity within the religious framework itself, we can't possibly say something such as "Islam is x".

I disagree fully, first you claimed early chirtianity was violent, what do you base that on? the only violence was romans/jews killing christian. I do belive islam is violent, based on the koran the very word of god to Muslims. Also based on Muhammad life and early islam and how it spread.

am Shamoun vs. Nadir Ahmed: “Is Islam a Religion of Peace?”
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/HYPERLINK "http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2008/01/sam-shamoun-vs-nadir-ahmed-is-islam.html"2008HYPERLINK "http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2008/01/sam-shamoun-vs-nadir-ahmed-is-islam.html"/HYPERLINK
Seymour vs. Nabeel Qureshi and David Wood
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2009...-abdullah.html
Sami Zaatari vs. David Wood: "Is Islam a Religion of Peace?" http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2008...-is-islam.html
Nadir Ahmed vs. David Wood: "Does Islam Promote Violence Towards Non-Muslims?"
[url]http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011/09/nadir-ahmed-vs-david-wood-does-islam.html?utm_source=feedburnerHYPERLINK
Osama Abdallah vs. David Wood: "Was Muhammad a True Prophet?"
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2008...wood-HYPERLINK "http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2008/09/osama-abdallah-vs-david-wood-was.html"was.html

From koran, I listed many a few post back number 20 about non believers but here are some more

violent passages-
Muslims feel threaten they can seek peace,they can pretend to be peaceful outwardly,but not inwardly 3.28
when Islam has upper hand such as Muhammad after he became leader of medina
47.35 they are to never ask for peace

reward for fighting
only sure way of going to heaven is to die in battle for islam
Qur’an 9:29—Fight those who believe not in Allah.
Sahih Muslim 33—“I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah.”


cannot enter paradise until you proven in battle your a true believer 3.140-144
those that fight [in battle] for islam in war receive heaven, hell for those that dont 48.16-20
those that die in battle for islam will go to paradise 47 4-6
anyone who dies in battle for god will be richly compensated 4.74
those that die in battle will be forgiven all there sins, and will go to heaven 3.195
promised reward for those that fight in battle 4.95-97 98-101
reward of heaven for those that die in battle 3.169-172
those who fight in war for allah and Muhammad get rewarded with paradise 9.87-90
Muslims were created to help Muhammad in war 9.40
allah rewards for fighting and jihad 4.74 9.89
in hadiths Muhammad taught if a person died in jihad they would get 70 virgins with 70 palaces
hadith 53 vol 4 book 52 praises dying for islam martyrdom
die in jihad guarantee paradise, not suicide intent to kill others 9.111
Muhammad told believers to fight them till they convert paradise for anyone who dies in war vol 4 book 53 hadith 586
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 44:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
A man came to Allah's Apostle and said, "Instruct me as to such a deed as equals Jihad (in reward)." He replied, "I do not find such a deed." Then he added, "Can you, while the Muslim fighter is in the battle-field, enter your mosque to perform prayers without cease and fast and never break your fast?" The man said, "But who can do that?" Abu- Huraira added, "The Mujahid (i.e. Muslim fighter) is rewarded even for the footsteps of his horse while it wanders bout (for grazing) tied in a long rope."
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 50:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet said, "A single endeavor (of fighting) in Allah's Cause in the forenoon or in the afternoon is better than the world and whatever is in it."

in the first century after Muhammad died and start of abu bakr Islam spread through battle from across north Africa up to Spain across Asia and India


If believers do not fight
fighting is obligated for believers,much as they dislike it 2.216
cannot enter paradise until you proven in battle your a true believer 3.140-144
Muslims were created to help Muhammad in war 9.40
those that fight [in battle] for islam in war receive heaven, hell for those that dont 48.16-20
a woeful scourge falls on arabs who do not fight in war 9.87-90
put to death deserter wherever you find them 4 87-90
those that dont fight in battle for god are not equal to those that do 4.95
those that dont fight that are able, are unclean and will be punished in hell 9.94-96
god will strike off the heads and fingertips of unbelievers,if any believer turns his back to infidels on the march,he will receive wrath from god and hell fire 8.15-16
believers who fight in war for islam,are not to be friends with those who have yet to join in war 8.70-75
Muslims who fight for god,are held higher by god than others and are promised paradise 9.20-22
if Muslims will not go to war god will punish them sternly 9.38-39



You claim Muhammad/Koran was pro woman?
please watch here
Omar Bakri & Shah Jalal Hussain vs. Sam Shamoun & David Wood: "Who Was Muhammad?"
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011...in-vs-sam.html

Robert Spencer vs. Moustafa Zayed: Does Islam Grant Equal Rights to Women? http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2011...html?HYPERLINK

also

woman
Qur’an 4:34—Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
Qur’an 2:282— . . . and call in to witness from among your men two witnesses; but if there are not two men, then one man and two women from among those whom you choose to be witnesses, so that if one of the two errs, the second of the two may remind the other . . .
Sahih al-Bukhari 2658—The Prophet said: “Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?” The women said: “Yes.” He said: “This is because of the deficiency of her mind.”
woman must breast feed 2 years if men wish 2.223
wives need to do good works to go to heaven 33.27-30
men get two times the inheritance that woman get 4 10-12 different punishment for men and woman, woman get more severe 4 15-16 men have authority over woman 4 34-35
iron fist of Islam reminds woman whos in control in jedd Saudi Arabia
Muhammad allowed rape in woman in territories they conquered 4.24 right hand refers to those taken in battle explained in hadith
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/
Qur’an 4:3—And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or (the captives) that your right hands possess. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.


I say islam is what the koran says it is, not someone opinion.

[Ser Clegane]

Somehow this "new Backroomer makes a cut-and-paste-from-other-websites thread about Christianity or Islam" exercise looks familiar...

[Kadagar_AV]

Nvm.

[Hax]

You are twisting my words. I said desert ideology, I said nothing about violence. Interestingly, the case of Hypatia of Alexandria could be used as an example of militant Christianity in its early years. As Phillipvs or Rhyfelwyr will probably point out soon, I probably can't say "Christianity" or something like that.

Additionally, I never stated my own opinion. You can spin it whatever way you like, but it is impossible to deny that there are Muslim women that defend their ideas of feminism on Islamic grounds. That says nothing about Islam, but only about how Islamic texts are perceived. Just as Ali Shar‘iati created the idea of khoda parast-e sosiyalist (the God-worshipping socialist) within the framework of Shi‘a theology. Many of the Shi‘a ulema’ didn't agree with him, but that doesn't mean that his ideas were false​.

I do belive islam is violent, based on the koran the very word of god to Muslims.

Indeed. I personally dislike the way the Qur‘ân appears to be an idol of worship to (at least) some Muslims nowadays, but in the end it doesn't really matter that much what you and I think. It's not going to change their belief, and in almost all cases, the expression their faith is non-violent. It shouldn't even be an issue.

You also appear to use "Qur‘ân", "Islam" and "Muslims" interchangeably. These three things are not the same.

[total relism]

You are twisting my words. I said desert ideology, I said nothing about violence. Interestingly, the case of Hypatia of Alexandria could be used as an example of militant Christianity in its early years. As Phillipvs or Rhyfelwyr will probably point out soon, I probably can't say "Christianity" or something like that.

Additionally, I never stated my own opinion. You can spin it whatever way you like, but it is impossible to deny that there are Muslim women that defend their ideas of feminism on Islamic grounds. That says nothing about Islam, but only about how Islamic texts are perceived. Just as Ali Shar‘iati created the idea of khoda parast-e sosiyalist (the God-worshipping socialist) within the framework of Shi‘a theology. Many of the Shi‘a ulema’ didn't agree with him, but that doesn't mean that his ideas were false​.



Indeed. I personally dislike the way the Qur‘ân appears to be an idol of worship to (at least) some Muslims nowadays, but in the end it doesn't really matter that much what you and I think. It's not going to change their belief, and in almost all cases, the expression their faith is non-violent. It shouldn't even be an issue.

You also appear to use "Qur‘ân", "Islam" and "Muslims" interchangeably. These three things are not the same.

Big differences,muslims doing what they did is constant with koran, also this tale was recently exposed as being false by atheist scholars. It was for political reasons i believe about Hypatia of Alexandria , I will post if brought up. If someone comes up with idea contradictory to koran than it is false theology weather they are "Muslim" or not. What I meant was if koran is word of god, than I dont care what some Muslim may believe about islam, as the source comes from allah and muhhumd, whatever some may say after matters not if it contridits either of these two.

[total relism]

wanted to post this.

Hypatia of Alexandria 415 AD
"Lindberg debunkes the myth that an anti-scincetfic christian mob killed pagan mathemtician Hypatia of Alexandria in ad 415. The truth is that hypatia was killed by a mob, but for poltical reasons unrelated to scince.
http://www.amazon.com/Cambridge-Comp.../dp/0521712513
The Cambridge Companion to Science and Religion (Cambridge Companions to Religion)#[Paperback]edited by peter harrison
See also
http://www.amazon.com/Galileo-Other-.../dp/0674033272
Galileo Goes to Jail and Other Myths about Science and Religion#[Hardcover]
Ronald L. Numbers#(Editor)

[Hax]

If that is what you think, I have nothing to say.

[rvg]

truthl33t?