French special forces operation foiled by villagers

[Myth]

OK guys, I don't know if this made the mainstream media in your parts of the world, but I find it both funny and scary at the same time. On the eve of the 15th of October, a team of 2 unidentified men land by parachute in a farmer's field in a village near Pleven, Bulgaria (I'm Bulgarian myself).

The owners of the field are brothers and reputed village brawlers, who regularly defend their lands during the night to prevent theft from ethnic minorities from a nearby village (theft in the rural areas of BG is a serious, albeit different issue). The incident happened because the foreigners had a 4x4 vehicle waiting for them. When the brothers confronted them about what the hell were five dark skinned men doing in a jeep on their private property, the men attempted to run them over with the vehicle. When that failed, they jumped out and engaged the two Bulgarian villagers and their friend, a local policeman who was off duty and had come to his friend's aid. Funny thing was, two of the men were shot in the legs, one had his nose broken and several had fractured limbs. They were beaten bloody, and only two managed to escape.

Facts: they pretended they did not speak Bulgarian, but later on it was discovered that they do. They have French citizenship but did not seek out the consulate. Our minister of internal affairs insists that they were "adrenaline junkies" and "civilians who practice extreme sports" and that's how they entered Bulgarian territory without authorization, via parachute, at night.

What's even funnier is that the French already admitted that these men were special forces who were doing training on infiltration into a foreign country.

Apart from the irony of having a team of five French special forces (they had diving and mountaineering equipment, GPS navigation etc. with them) beaten bloody by two burly village brawlers and an off-duty cop, I find it disturbing that our own minister would lie to the public. The French dismiss the accident as "unimportant" but what the hell were they doing here? Why were the men dark skinned (easily mistaken for the local roma minority) and why wasn't our intelligence office aware of this? Certain military sources state that this is standard NATO practice - they drop special forces as mock insurgents and then monitor our response and level of awareness. Well, if it's standard it's sure as hell news to me.

Something similar happened in 1999 during the conflicts in former Yugoslavia, where some SAS agents were beaten like drums by overzealous tavern patrons in Macedonia. Yet I find it highly improbable that two average joes and an off-duty cop can take on a team of 5 berets. It makes sense if the French had orders not to harm civilians, but then their training must be something if they'd sit there and let some villagers break their damn legs and do nothing.

[Kadagar_AV]

This is an awesome story.

Have heard nothing about it, got some sources? Worst case even BG ones will do, can always google translate it :)

[Husar]

Not all Special Forces have super close combat skills or even shooting skills.

Often they're trained for very different tasks like reconnaissance, dealings with and military training for the locals etc.

They're not all snipers who brawl like Chuck Norris but translators, explosives experts and so on.

Question is of course, if they couldn't brawl very well, why did they pick a fight with the locals instead of moderating the heated discussion and speeding away? Maybe their esprit de corps was a bit higher than their fighting skills or so.

[Kadagar_AV]

Not all Special Forces have super close combat skills or even shooting skills.

Often they're trained for very different tasks like reconnaissance, dealings with and military training for the locals etc.

They're not all snipers who brawl like Chuck Norris but translators, explosives experts and so on.

Question is of course, if they couldn't brawl very well, why did they pick a fight with the locals instead of moderating the heated discussion and speeding away? Maybe their esprit de corps was a bit higher than their fighting skills or so.

This.

They come off as cartoonian no matter what perspective...

[Ronin]

reminds me of some British special forces that "invaded" Spain a couple of years ago....they were doing an amphibian exercise in Gibraltar, read their maps wrong and landed on the wrong beach......this happened in broad daylight mind you

[Brenus]

Nothing in the French Media, even the specialised one. I know this kind of training is done by the 13 Régiment de Dragons Parachutistes as a test to see if they are able to carry a mission of deep infiltration in enemy territory (recon), and to choose a "foreign" but not too hostile country is better because the worst is to be arrested by local police and to spend few days in jail. But what I find strange in your story: Not that many French speak Bulgarian, and not many French have dark skin. It cold be make-up, but you don't mention it. I will keep am eye on French Media.

[Beskar]

Roma infiltration unit? Is it to be expected, but it does bring some worrying concerns. Hopefully the French authorities are not acting without care.

[Greyblades]

Huh, I had no idea that the roma were such a pest, over here we just stick them on reality tv to point and laugh at them.

[HoreTore]

Huh, I had no idea that the roma were such a pest, over here we just stick them on reality tv to point and laugh at them.

The balkans have even formed a new version of the blackshirts, who frequently go to the countryside looking for roma to beat up. With the blessing of the authorities, of course.

Wonderful measure of integration.

[Greyblades]

Methinks that last sentence applies to the roma as much as it does to the locals.

[HoreTore]

Methinks that last sentence applies to the roma as much as it does to the locals.

Of course, noone is claiming otherwise(if I read it correctly, ie roma has an obligation to integrate) A lot of the Roma are doing fine too, with employment, higher education, etc, just like the completely normal people they are. But when we're talking about the roma problem, we are talking about those who are living in utter poverty and are ostracised and persecuted by various governments(forced sterilization programs FTW).

[Myth]

Of course, noone is claiming otherwise(if I read it correctly, ie roma has an obligation to integrate) A lot of the Roma are doing fine too, with employment, higher education, etc, just like the completely normal people they are. But when we're talking about the roma problem, we are talking about those who are living in utter poverty and are ostracised and persecuted by various governments(forced sterilization programs FTW).

I don't know how many Roma you have in the universities in Norway but I've seen none in ours, and I've lived n Student City in Sofia for two years, and I frequent the campus of the Veliko Tarnovo university (my home town).

[Myth]

The balkans have even formed a new version of the blackshirts, who frequently go to the countryside looking for roma to beat up. With the blessing of the authorities, of course.

Wonderful measure of integration.

Sir, I live on the Balkans and this is horseshit. Some pseudo NFP organizations like Soros and other such foundations brainwash the western countries into believing this crap. We had a huge scandal last year with one of the most prominent gypsy feudal lords, who got filthy rich off of making fake alcohol. His grandson and a bunch of goons killed a Bulgarian teenager over an argument. Then a bunch of football fans (or "hooligans" as they are called in the news) got up and torched that guy's house (illegally built of course) and his 100,000 euro Mercedes.

The police came and beat and gassed the Bulgarians, not the gypsies who later assembled en masse and said on the damn news that "heads will roll" and shouted "death to the Bulgarians"

they do NOT view themselves as part of this nation and there are no neo-Nazi sqads going around beating gypsies. After this incident a 19 year old got 3 months of prison for starting a FB group named "Death to the gypsies". While the gypsies threatened death on live TV and they got police escort and protection for it.

[Sarmatian]

The balkans have even formed a new version of the blackshirts, who frequently go to the countryside looking for roma to beat up. With the blessing of the authorities, of course.

Wonderful measure of integration.

Ok, this is bollox.

The first nation that integrates Gypsies should get all the Nobel prizes, even physics. Can't be done. You'd have to give each one three-man around the clock watch just to get them to go to school.

There isn't a single mechanism of our state apparatus that could make them change their ways. It's not the problem of "we won't", it's the problem of "they won't".

[Fisherking]

Send them all to Norway and see if that gets them to pay their utility bills?

[HoreTore]

I don't know how many Roma you have in the universities in Norway but I've seen none in ours, and I've lived n Student City in Sofia for two years, and I frequent the campus of the Veliko Tarnovo university (my home town).

That you don't have any rather proves my point about your governments, don't it?

Ok, this is bollox.

The first nation that integrates Gypsies should get all the Nobel prizes, even physics. Can't be done. You'd have to give each one three-man around the clock watch just to get them to go to school.

There isn't a single mechanism of our state apparatus that could make them change their ways. It's not the problem of "we won't", it's the problem of "they won't".

It's already done, so this post isn't relevant.

Send them all to Norway and see if that gets them to pay their utility bills?

We've had roma so long we've even had time to sterilize them. Glory to us!

[Kralizec]

Can't be done. You'd have to give each one three-man around the clock watch just to get them to go to school.

Allthough you're presumably using it as a random example, I'd pitch in and say that if that's what it takes, then do it. If their parents cause trouble, use SWAT teams to get these kids into school. If those kids grow up without high school diplomas I garantue you the next generations of Roma will be as bad as the current lot.

That alone is not going to solve the problems, but it's a precondition.

[Myth]

Allthough you're presumably using it as a random example, I'd pitch in and say that if that's what it takes, then do it. If their parents cause trouble, use SWAT teams to get these kids into school. If those kids grow up without high school diplomas I garantue you the next generations of Roma will be as bad as the current lot.

That alone is not going to solve the problems, but it's a precondition.

Using SWAT teams will just cause them to cry that they are being repressed and one thousand pseudo humanist NPP organizations will bitch to Brussels of how the BG government is terrorizing the minorities. Remember last time with Milosevic? Because the Albanians back then were a similar problem for Serbia. Don't ask me though, ask the Serbian guy right there.

[Ironside]

Self determination is key. If the Roma don't want to partake in society, that's fine. I don't see why they should be allowed to have their cake and eat it too, though.

But i really don't know much about the situation.

It's a spiral. By not partaking in society from the start, they got frozen out and treated badly. In particular the freezing out, causes them to have no other option than to take pride in being what they are. And since they're treated badly and have no other option, they start to act badly in turn.

If people thinks you're a thief and no matter what you do, they won't accept proof of otherwise, then what's the point of not being a thief?

The situation is quite bad there, much worse than with the local Roma population in other countries.

[Husar]

How dare you suggest the great Rambo was a marine!? He was Army, brah.

That was the point, if an army guy could do what he did, then surely a marine could do so much more.

[Kadagar_AV]

I love the Marines... Only cannon fodder being damn proud of being cannon fodder...

I'm da THING, I'm da MARINE, no special ops stuffz here nah, I storm beaches and stuff!!

It's where the US send the brawl without the brains, and the fact that they are proud of it I only understood when I remembered that this is in the country where many poor support the American Dream but not an Universal Health Plan.

I love the states.

[Vuk]

I love the Marines... Only cannon fodder being damn proud of being cannon fodder...

I'm da THING, I'm da MARINE, no special ops stuffz here nah, I storm beaches and stuff!!

It's where the US send the brawl without the brains, and the fact that they are proud of it I only understood when I remembered that this is in the country where many poor support the American Dream but not an Universal Health Plan.

I love the states.

Mate, I wish you were standing beside me right now, because I would turn you inside out. Why don't you go grow a pair of balls (or are they outlawed in Sweden?) and actually say that to a US Marine's face? You know as well as I do that you would never dare.

[Kadagar_AV]

Mate, I wish you were standing beside me right now, because I would turn you inside out. Why don't you go grow a pair of balls (or are they outlawed in Sweden?) and actually say that to a US Marine's face? You know as well as I do that you would never dare.

To threat forum members with physical violence is generally seen as rude mate.

I've said worse to marines, got in a hell of a fight too. As you yourself imply, it's not like these guys generally have the mental capacity to answer with anything but fists, is it?

Wasn't a clear winner in that fight though, but back then I was Sgt. and way more fit. I'm sure most of those lackwits would beat me today, but why would that stop me from stating that they are cretins on the internet?

[Vuk]

To threat forum members with physical violence is generally seen as rude mate.

I've said worse to marines, got in a hell of a fight too. As you yourself imply, it's not like these guys generally have the mental capacity to answer with anything but fists, is it?

Wasn't a clear winner in that fight though, but back then I was Sgt. and way more fit. I'm sure most of those lackwits would beat me today, but why would that stop me from stating that they are cretins on the internet?

It isn't cool to say things like that just because you are trying to piss people off dude. Have some respect, and don't act like a piece of dung.

[Vuk]

Marines are, by and large, undisciplined and full of themselves. They have itchy trigger fingers and lack the cool-mindedness required for counter-insurgency ops. Leave em for storming the beaches.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Oh, and happy Birthday, ye smarmy bastards!

Translation: The Marines are the branch that knows how to fight and win wars, and the Army makes better policemen.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Yes. The only winner in WW2 was the USA. Your entire continent was destroyed, depopulated, and rebuilt by us. That's why you no longer have an appetite for large wars.

Yeah the destruction did a lot to drive a point home. Except 1914-1918 should've done it by that logic.

[gaelic cowboy]

Yeah the destruction did a lot to drive a point home. Except 1914-1918 should've done it by that logic.

WW2 laid waste to civilian population centers on a far larger scale than WW1

[Tellos Athenaios]

True. But my point lies more in what followed, which is where WW1 and WW2 had different outcomes. Destruction alone was not quite enough to dissuade Europeans from going to war, they did fight some fairly bloody wars to retain colonies for instance and plenty volunteered for Korea and Vietnam.

WW2 ended in Liberation, nukes, a complete realignment of power, dismantling of colonial empires, Cold War, Wirtschaftswunder, various European integration/collaboration projects, discrediting of Nazism and related ideologies.

It's not that there weren't "doves" in Europe prior to 1914, or 1939. It's that they were not listened to. But it makes for a different story when there are two vastly more powerful empires using your countries as pieces in their foreign policy, have enough armed forces to enforce their decisions on you and you do need their approval as you cannot do anything alone. Heck the Suez crisis was a nice little Franco-British-Israel vs Egypt match, until ... the USA told them off for threatening their delicate diplomacy with the USSR.

As an added bonus, the threat of nukes.

[Greyblades]

I highly doubt the scale of defeats in WW2 were the main reason, I think the inability to do much in he world without the threat of nukes from one side or another and the increased prevelance of free media making a lower public tolerance to high casualties and resulting reluctance in publically elected governments were the deciding factors IMO.

[Tellos Athenaios]

That's what I'm saying, though. WW2 drove home to most Europeans the utter fear of war on their own doorstep.

Yeah except none of what I mentioned was actually in WW2. Take your argument again, and apply:

Massive casualties, guaranteed destruction? People knew that going in, those facts were well appreciated even before WW2 due to WW1 and that fear is what drove appeasement policies. It didn't work.
Massive casualties, guaranteed destruction? People knew that going in, those facts were well appreciated even before WW1 due to Napoleonic wars and the proof of concept demonstrated in 1870/71 and that fear is what drove the Concert of Europe. It didn't work.

European foreign policy since Waterloo is predicated on avoiding full scale, all out war on the European mainland.

Ask yourself: the desire was there so why didn't it work? What changed to make it work this time?

Answer #1 everyone was liberated -- nobody was defeated. Even the Germans were liberated, from the Nazis. Perhaps the exception was the "East" bloc, but they suffered the USSR...
Answer #2 European powers were stripped of their power.
Answer #3 new powers rose and they demanded peace & compliance from Europe.
Answer #4 economy (eventually) picked up whilst protectionism and trade disputes were removed.
Answer #5 instead of a tangled web of bilateral agreements something more comprehensive and inclusive was done. The various European projects were deliberately all-inclusive.
... and lot's more.


... Don't get me wrong: the promise of utter ruin is a powerful component of it all. But by itself I don't think it is what made the difference. Make-love-not-war was ultimately an American export, even if it resonated perhaps more strongly in Europe.