Legalized Marijuana

[rory_20_uk]

General question:

Why does any hint/step toward the legalization of marijauna generate such joy on forums such as this?


I myself have never partaken, but favor legalization on grounds of practicality and individual rights -- no research indicates that the stuff is any more deleterious to one's health than is tobacco or alcohol and driving while impaired should be stamped out regardless of the source of the impairment -- yet so many who post on this thread and similar one's seem so avid about it.

In practical terms, legalization won't make it all that easier for any who do partake to acquire the stuff. My 17-year-old assures me that he could get me connected and supplied in under an hour and with fewer than a half dozen phone calls even though he doesn't and his friends don't use the stuff either. Apparently, getting supplied when one is in high school is not a matter of difficulty.

So why?

I'm not a 17 year old. I have a job. I also have a Medical Lisence. Although I can get smashed and pitch up with a hangover and that is (to a point) A-OK I can not engage in illegal usage.

I am not a pot-head, but I might like the rare use of small amounts. Hence I am happy that some day I might be able to do so.

Plus, the fact it is illegal flies in the face of all evidence (that the scientific committee in the UK got booted for using evidence is a case in point) and hence altering this is a step towards reason.

[Idaho]

Hello everyone. My name is Idaho and I am a pot head. I have a good job in a multi national company. I am to all outward appearances a normal person. Perhaps an outside observer would say I was a bit of a fitness/health food freak and that I didn't go out drinking as much as most in my demographic.

However I love weed. It's a passion for me. I don't grow but I would love to. I love trying new strains just like a wine buff loves to taste wine. I don't partake during the week or if I have important stuff to do at the weekend. I am no more dangerous to myself or others than any other normal person.

So what is the problem? The problem is that I can't be honest about my life. I have to sneak about. I have to worry about what would happen if the company found out. This is in a work environment where drinking to excess is considered healthy and natural.

I would love to go out on the weekend to a cannabis club/cafe. I don't mind going to the pub but after 2 pints I've had enough and want a smoke. Do that in a pub and things can get serious. Most pubs have a "pubs against drugs" sign up - which is laughable.

There are millions of us. Normal people who want to engage normally with society.

[Fragony]

You are not the problem Idaho, weed itself isn't the problem. The problem is the crime that is related to it, which isn't going to disapear but will probably get more cynical. With many shades of grey things can still always get really dark, better to just keep it illegal and turn a blind eye, do you want any recognision because you smoke pot and are succesfull anyway.

[Idaho]

There isn't much crime related to the production and supply of alcohol. Quite a lot from those who have consumed it though.

Make cannabis legal and it will effectively dissappear as a crime and public order issue.

[rory_20_uk]

You are not the problem Idaho, weed itself isn't the problem. The problem is the crime that is related to it, which isn't going to disapear but will probably get more cynical. With many shades of grey things can still always get really dark, better to just keep it illegal and turn a blind eye, do you want any recognision because you smoke pot and are succesfull anyway.

There is no crime with oilseed rape crops, which would be almost the same cost to produce (the only difference being the potential cost of tax). Where would the crime be? True, there could be some with legal crops in the UK going elsewhere - but that is again dealt with by a grown up, evidence based approach across the board - you take away the margins and as if by magic crime stops as it is not profitable. Criminals are in the main business people. They want money.

Are we then left with the risable tale of persons after taking hash cakes for two weeks suddenly get the urge to mainline heroin as if one is taking soft drugs that are legal one will want to take harder illegal drugs (and only recently legalised ones, not any existing legal ones)?

Public disorder is still a criminal matter. Selling things without a license is still a criminal matter. We just have rather pretty fields of hemp and a new source of revenue for the state.

[Fragony]

There is no crime with oilseed rape crops, which would be almost the same cost to produce (the only difference being the potential cost of tax). Where would the crime be? True, there could be some with legal crops in the UK going elsewhere - but that is again dealt with by a grown up, evidence based approach across the board - you take away the margins and as if by magic crime stops as it is not profitable. Criminals are in the main business people. They want money.

Are we then left with the risable tale of persons after taking hash cakes for two weeks suddenly get the urge to mainline heroin as if one is taking soft drugs that are legal one will want to take harder illegal drugs (and only recently legalised ones, not any existing legal ones)?

Public disorder is still a criminal matter. Selling things without a license is still a criminal matter. We just have rather pretty fields of hemp and a new source of revenue for the state.

In the UK it would work fine, but not in the US. As was posted before just one state would mean a net loss of 1.2 billion to the black market. They are not just going to accept that without a fight.

[Montmorency]

They are not just going to accept that without a fight.

The black market (i.e. the cartels) has other sources of revenue. There's a limit to what they'll risk in a reaction.

[Lemur]

Yes, and while criminal cartels are very good at avoiding or cooping officials tasked with catching them, they have limited success in combating nation-states head-on. I don't see what the Mexican cartels can do beyond take taking the financial hit, and contributing as much money as possible to politicians who promise to continue prohibition.

[Fragony]

The black market (i.e. the cartels) has other sources of revenue. There's a limit to what they'll risk in a reaction.

I wouldn't be all that eager to anger them, accepting some hypocracy to not have video's of kids getting their heads sawn of with an electric buzzsaw sounds good. For fighting the cartels you would have to be able to outbudget them, until you do you can forget about any effort, it only exists on paper.
@Xiahou, nobody does that here. Tourists think it's hilarious to ask a police-officer for a light but you will never see anything of what you are pondering about.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Hello everyone. My name is Idaho and I am a pot head. I have a good job in a multi national company. I am to all outward appearances a normal person. Perhaps an outside observer would say I was a bit of a fitness/health food freak and that I didn't go out drinking as much as most in my demographic.

However I love weed. It's a passion for me. I don't grow but I would love to. I love trying new strains just like a wine buff loves to taste wine. I don't partake during the week or if I have important stuff to do at the weekend. I am no more dangerous to myself or others than any other normal person.

So what is the problem? The problem is that I can't be honest about my life. I have to sneak about. I have to worry about what would happen if the company found out. This is in a work environment where drinking to excess is considered healthy and natural.

I would love to go out on the weekend to a cannabis club/cafe. I don't mind going to the pub but after 2 pints I've had enough and want a smoke. Do that in a pub and things can get serious. Most pubs have a "pubs against drugs" sign up - which is laughable.

There are millions of us. Normal people who want to engage normally with society.

Okay, that is a direct and clear answer to my question. While I had no great grief with Gelcube's five points, I had pretty much acknowledged them as "givens" without the need of restatement. Your response goes to the heart of my question. Thanks.

[TinCow]

There are millions of us. Normal people who want to engage normally with society.

QFT. I have not smoked for four years, but that's simply because it's a pain in the butt for me to get these days and it's simply not worth the effort. I smoked regularly for over 10 years, during which time I managed to write an honors thesis (done mostly while stoned), graduate from college, graduate from law school, pass the bar, get married, and find a successful career. I drink alcohol almost daily and am considered 'posh' by many parts of society because I spend a great deal of money on that alcohol (wine). Yet I am threatened with jail if I take a single toke on a joint. Why am I applauded by many people for consuming alcohol and punished for consuming marijuana?

I have many friends who also do, or used to smoke marijuana. Nearly all of them are employed (those that aren't have nothing to do with marijuana), many of them are married, some of them have children. Amongst them are multiple surgeons, lawyers, judges, accountants, bankers, engineers, professors, filmmakers, video game developers, IT professionals, teachers, and more.

[Slyspy]

Most pubs have a "pubs against drugs" sign up - which is laughable.

While I agree with the idea of pot being legal, given that the pub trade is my profession, I should point out that preventing the use of illegal drugs on your premises is a condition of your license. Although enforcement may vary from pub to pub, everytime someone lights up, snorts a line etc they are putting someone's livelihood at risk. If the licensee fails to take action against users then they themselves are risking their livelihood.

[Idaho]

It's laughable because it should say "pubs against the drugs we don't sell on the premises" or even "customers are not permitted to take drugs bought off the premises". The whole culturally ingrained notion that people going to the pub and sinking a few pints are not embarking on an evening of drug taking needs to be challenged at every turn.

[rvg]

It's laughable because it should say "pubs against the drugs we don't sell on the premises" or even "customers are not permitted to take drugs bought off the premises". The whole culturally ingrained notion that people going to the pub and sinking a few pints are not embarking on an evening of drug taking needs to be challenged at every turn.

Is it really so unusual for people to completely abhor drugs and at the same time be social drinkers?

[Lemur]

Is it really so unusual for people to completely abhor drugs and at the same time be social drinkers?

Perhaps not unusual, but highly illogical, as Spock would say.

[Idaho]

When you tell some people that alcohol is a drug, they either don't believe it, or think you are making some point of semantic pedantry.

It's a drug. It's a chemical that affects your mood and behavior. It's isn't analogous to a drug. It isn't the equivalent of a drug. It isn't like a drug. IT'S A DRUG!

[Tellos Athenaios]

The point is alcohol is a drug. By far one of the most potent, poisonous and dangerous in general. Easy to overdose on, as well.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

The point is alcohol is a drug. By far one of the most potent, poisonous and dangerous in general. Easy to overdose on, as well.

Actually, a lethal overdose is rather difficult, albeit not impossible. On the other hand, alcohol certainly holds its own in the long term damage potential category.