Legalized Marijuana

[rvg]

RVG, you strike me as someone who has spent next to zero time in and amongst the weed-smoking sub (or not so sub) culture.

You are absolutely right. I have NEVER smoked weed. I don't even know what it looks like or smells like. I know what a hemp leaf looks like, but that's about it.

Legalizing it has only benefits, no downsides.

Not for me. I quite honestly do not need it nor want it. As for the society at large, what benefits are we talking about?

[Fisherking]

I wouldn’t bother trying to convert him.

If it proves to be a sweet tax item then state legislatures will be passing bill without having to go to the people.

What really needs done now is the re-legalization of industrial hemp. The stuff that won’t get you high. Replace wood paper with hemp paper and allow its other uses.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Well, I could refer to you to my 5-point list earlier in the thread, but I think I can reach you better by outlining why it would be helpful to you--a responsible, law-abiding, straight-edged conservative:

MONEY. That's why. By decriminalizing--and especially by fully legalizing and regulating--you take the single-largest step towards a balanced budget in this country that could possible be taken. Entire portions of the federal government become suddenly useless, and ripe for extinction. State and Federal criminal justice systems would be free from prosecuting the hundreds of thousands of minor drug offendors that currently clog our courts and prisons, and the federal government would lose much of its incentive to create intrusive policies (more of which have stemmed from the war on drugs than any other driving force). Jobs would be created. Millions of jobs. Businesses would be able to quickly step in and make money in a market for which there is already a great demand. The taxes--assuming it was taxed at the same rate as Alcohol--would bring in astronomical profits for state and federal coffers. Organized crime would take a massive financial death blow, lessening the burden on our criminal justice system even further. Money, money, money. That affects you, whether you care about weed or not.

LODES OF MONE

[HopAlongBunny]

It is hard to add much beyond Gelatinous Cube's excellent post

Changing terms of reference can be useful though: "rvg, why do you insist on a public subsidy to organized crime?"

[Fragony]

It is hard to add much beyond Gelatinous Cube's excellent post

Changing terms of reference can be useful though: "rvg, why do you insist on a public subsidy to organized crime?"

Because it's easier to be a hypocrite, and I would be ok with being one really. Much better than importing the amount of violence that goes on in this trade, less people will get hurt if you just accept the existance of an undercurrent in economics aka the black market. Do not mess with it.

[HopAlongBunny]

No argument really.

Legalization reduces violence, reduces the pain and "captures" lost economic activity.

[Fragony]

No argument really.

Legalization reduces violence, reduces the pain and "captures" lost economic activity.

Is a billion dollar loss per state for the cartels enough of an argument, do you really think they will let that happen when it is so much easier to terrorise? Little reality check, they outbudget you 4 to 1.

[rory_20_uk]

Is a billion dollar loss per state for the cartels enough of an argument, do you really think they will let that happen when it is so much easier to terrorise? Little reality check, they outbudget you 4 to 1.

Terrorise who exactly? Dictate the USA on which laws it enacts? Take on the most powerful armed forces on the planet? Terrorise the population to not purchase from legal channels but to purchase illegally?

If that were possible, there are many other areas where criminals would get laws to get money.

Frankly, you've been smoking some really strong stuff today.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Is a billion dollar loss per state for the cartels enough of an argument, do you really think they will let that happen when it is so much easier to terrorise? Little reality check, they outbudget you 4 to 1.

Good grief, Frags. You bring this up again and again, but there's no evidence for it at all. In Washington we already get a lot of weed from BC Canada and there's no attacks from the cartels.

There's not going to be any narco-wars or -terrorism.

Until you have solid evidence that this is actually a possibility and not just something you have a hunch is going to happen, would you consider not using this as a reason to oppose legalized pot?

Not for me. I quite honestly do not need it nor want it. As for the society at large, what benefits are we talking about?

People should have the freedom to smoke pot. A freer society is a better society.

Also, the end of the drug war that was put millions of people in jail, spent hundreds of billions of dollars, militarized our police, normalized no-knock raids on people for having/selling a plant (and we thought the secret police of totalitarian states actually knocking on doors at night was bad), led to tens of thousands of people being killed by violence in Central and South America.

You need to look at the broader view rather than just 'people can smoke pot now'.

I do not believe drugs to be a positive influence on our society.

I do not like this position, because I believe it stems from an authoritarian mindset; the idea that anyone has a right to prohibit (consider the full meaning of that word) anything they believe to be a negative influence on society at large.

But you and other authoritarians should not have the power to decide how others should best spend their lives (excepting the prevention of violence and fraud, etc.). IT is a fundamental right of people to direct their own lives, and live them their own way, even if that displeases others because they are not living up to what is imagined to be best for society.

CR

[HopAlongBunny]

Is a billion dollar loss per state for the cartels enough of an argument, do you really think they will let that happen when it is so much easier to terrorise? Little reality check, they outbudget you 4 to 1.

Violence in the context of American (Canadian, EU) legalization is unlikely. Like any good business, investment in political influence is much safer-corruption is the much bigger concern. It too, is purely hypothetical.

I thought and realized corruption in unnecessary as well. Most Western systems are sufficiently porous that simple funding of the "right" causes can keep reform bogged down for decades.

[Tuuvi]

Is a billion dollar loss per state for the cartels enough of an argument, do you really think they will let that happen when it is so much easier to terrorise? Little reality check, they outbudget you 4 to 1.

The cartels can get away with what they do in Mexico because they pay off the police or they're in the police themselves, so nobody can really stop them. Here in the US our government institutions are a lot stronger; the cartels do operate here but they could never carry out the kind of violence they do in Mexico without serious consequences.