Legalized Marijuana

[TinCow]

Ok, it's finally happened. Washington and Colorado have both legalized the possession, production, and sale of marijuana for recreational use. The drug remains illegal on a Federal level. Will the Fed actually try and enforce that law without the cooperation of state authorities? With no border controls at all between states, how can the Fed possibly hope to contain legal marijuana production in two states from spilling over into the rest of the country, particularly the west? Is this the beginning of the end of the Federal ban?

[Kadagar_AV]

This is a good day for successful people who wants to chill back once in a while.

For people not having much human interaction it's a rather black day IMHO.



I have seen my brother go down because of marijuana (and WoW). I have also seen plenty of people who appreciate the drug as a recreational thing without any ill effects.

Social isolation is the problem, not the drugs.

[Lemur]

This is a bad day for the Mexican Cartels, who are estimated to lose up to $1.2 billion in revenues if even a single state legalizes mary jane. Weep for the hardworking cartel, my friends.

[Vladimir]

I imagine federal fines will be a new source of revenue.

Do we really need drunk AND high people driving about?

[Fragony]

This is a bad day for the Mexican Cartels, who are estimated to lose up to $1.2 billion in revenues if even a single state legalizes mary jane. Weep for the hardworking cartel, my friends.

That is what worries me, been arguing that since forever. They won't like it and they are beyond cruel. What do people expect.

[Ironside]

That is what worries me, been arguing that since forever. They won't like it and they are beyond cruel. What do people expect.

Do they have enough influence in those state to something serious about it without losing most of their firepower though?

[rory_20_uk]

Do we really need drunk AND high people driving about?

Strawman, but I'm sure we'll hear a lot more theoretical problems emerging.

Assuming these states don't implode with Domino's vans whizzing street to street with and almost universal unemployment it will provide a good case study for the rest of us.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I imagine federal fines will be a new source of revenue.

Do we really need drunk AND high people driving about?

Yeah, and I've met quite a few people who think marijuana doesn't impair driving.

I'm hopeful about the cartel's losing money, but we'll have to see how it turns out.

[Lemur]

I'm hopeful about the cartel's losing money, but we'll have to see how it turns out.

I got my numbers off; in fact I was lowballing the predicted impact on the cartels. Details:

What would happen if Colorado, Oregon or Washington were to vote for such a “market alternative” on Tuesday? None of those states is a very big drug market in itself. But if it were legal to grow pot in, say, Washington, it’s not hard to imagine that a certain amount of it would illegally leak out into neighbouring states. Would Mexico’s bandits find themselves undercut by “El Cártel de Seattle”?

IMCO reckons they could be. [...] Mexico’s traffickers would lose about $1.4 billion of their $2 billion revenues from marijuana. The effect on some groups would be severe: the Sinaloa “cartel” would lose up to half its total income, IMCO reckons. Exports of other drugs, from cocaine to methamphetamine, would become less competitive, as the traffickers’ fixed costs (from torturing rivals to bribing American and Mexican border officials) would remain unchanged, even as marijuana revenues fell.

Legalisation could, in short, deal a blow to Mexico’s traffickers of a magnitude that no current policy has got close to achieving. The stoned and sober alike should bear that in mind when they cast their votes on Tuesday.

[Fragony]

Do they have enough influence in those state to something serious about it without losing most of their firepower though?

What do you do about it, I think it's a mistake but we will see. Drugs is currency nothing more, and destroying it might just be not the brightest idea ever. Or just might be really stupid because it will not just be accepted and you won't have the means to do anything about the violence that's comming towards you.

[Crazed Rabbit]

Of note for the WA law is that you still can't legally grow your own; you have to buy it from a state store.

CR

[Beskar]

I wonder if Government run vending machines would 'buy' confiscated weed from other states to sell in the said machines.

[Xiahou]

A few musings....

I don't like marijuana. I don't like getting high. Tried it a few times back in college and I decided I'd rather keep my wits about me.

Having said that, I'm fine with legalization with one caveat- I don't want to be breathing the stuff. If you want to live in a cloud of it, that's your business- but what about people who don't want to? What if you live in a duplex and your neighbors are (now legal) hardcore stoners. What's my recourse to their smoke infiltrating my living space? Do the laws that were just passed address any of this?

[drone]

Of note for the WA law is that you still can't legally grow your own; you have to buy it from a state store.

So if the feds do crack down, they will be raiding state property? That ought to lead to some amusing incidents. Does the law specify where the state gets the product from?

The sports radio guys this morning were talking about the new-found advantage the Denver Nuggets now have on signing free agents.

[Xiahou]

So if the feds do crack down, they will be raiding state property? That ought to lead to some amusing incidents. Does the law specify where the state gets the product from?

The sports radio guys this morning were talking about the new-found advantage the Denver Nuggets now have on signing free agents.

Or they'd just take it to the federal courts and the law gets overturned by the commerce clause.

[TinCow]

Or they'd just take it to the federal courts and the law gets overturned by the commerce clause.

Yeah, this is really more of the kind of discussion I'm interested in. There are going to be massive problems for Federal drug policy as a result of this. I don't really see any options other than the Fed cracking down on Washington and Colorado and finding a way to force them to reverse the laws, or abandoning drug enforcement as far as marijuana goes. The question seems to be what the Obama administration will do about it. While Obama is clearly liberal, his administration hasn't exactly been lax on enforcement over the last four years.

[Fisherking]

Before you get too hyped up I am sure they will have to stand some kind of court challenges.

Disappointingly neither seemed to have legalized commercial hemp, that I could find in the text.

I hope that comes next, as it is only banned due to its resemblance to MJ.


I-502 WA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Initiative_502

http://www.newapproachwa.org/sites/n...bookmarked.pdf
Amendment 64 CO.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorad..._64_%282012%29

http://www.regulatemarijuana.org/s/r...cohol-act-2012

[drone]

Forgot the obligatory:

[Fisherking]

When the song was over this was then next choice for a Rocky Mountain High.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=szBafBoN2nY

Which I figure two jerks did post joint.

[Strike For The South]

I agree with Fragony

In the long run this will work,but in the short run you're going to see burned out dispensaries and dismembred small buinsess owners (Those poor job creators)

Provided it picks up steam and by that I mean California. I don't care what these fly over country hippies do

[HopAlongBunny]

It will be interesting to see the Federal gov't aligned with the drug cartels in stamping out this initiative.

That might make the relationship too transparent for some...

[ICantSpellDawg]

Republicans should jump on this issue, pronto. Make it an issue of local governance and Federal overstep into the lives of Americans. We should creep towards this. Let the Democrats pander to the dying old people on the issue, the G.O.P. needs to start branching out and this is one way to do it. I think that a focus on the disproportionate impact on Americans along with individual sovereignty concerns will we easily adopted over a short period of time.

[TinCow]

Republicans should jump on this issue, pronto. Make it an issue of local governance and Federal overstep into the lives of Americans. We should creep towards this. Let the Democrats pander to the dying old people on the issue, the G.O.P. needs to start branching out and this is one way to do it. I think that a focus on the disproportionate impact on Americans along with individual sovereignty concerns will we easily adopted over a short period of time.

I think you're spot on. Shockingly, a medical marijuana provision in Arkansas only failed by 52% to 48%. If a state that voted over 60% for Romney is borderline on medical marijuana, it's an issue that's ripe for the Republicans to pick up and run with.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Exactly. Personally, I am hard-core pro-life (willing to strategically compromise, but with an intense agenda), but almost everything else is negotiable. I favor a traditionally strong and active military, tax reform (maybe higher capital gains rates coupled with drastically reduced corporate taxes - all corporate loopholes closed), nearly unlimited gun rights, legalize most drugs, abolish government sham marriage to strengthen it at home, and I'm ok with more aspects of the affordable care act than you might expect because 80% of the ideas were some that I championed in Romney's state based (and actualized) plan, but I am obsessively interested in private insurance/consumer related cost solutions. I want equal funding for education based on the student and a highly regulated voucher system utilizing public, charter, private, religious schools. Let schools rely on private grants for the extras.

The beautiful thing about the G.O.P. is that it was formed as a radically progressive party and today it represents a tested conservative agenda. It is a suit filled with the talent of the time. Fill it, they are in need of good ideas right now and the country is in need of a viable alternative.

[HopAlongBunny]

How are you going to compensate your private prisons for loss of a reliable revenue stream?

[TinCow]

How are you going to compensate your private prisons for loss of a reliable revenue stream?

We can rent them out to China. Outsourcing can benefit us as well!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

We agree on more things than we disagree. I think the biggest (perhaps the only...) difference between you and I is the notion of a 'strong and active military.' Unfortunately, that's a big one. Strong and active militaries cost a lot of money that could be better spent on things that help people.

As with our healthcare system and our retiree living stipend system, our military is bitwixt and between. While for the former two examples, some argument can be made for not fully embracing one organizing philosophy over another, it doesn't make sense on the military.

If you want an active military that kick ass whenever we get annoyed with some party then you have to staff it and fund it to suit. If not, then staffing it and funding it to do that on the cheap with overlong deployments and never quite enough resources to squelch any trouble is NOT the way to go.

[Idaho]

I imagine federal fines will be a new source of revenue.

Do we really need drunk AND high people driving about?

<facepalm>

The whole point is that people smoke weed regardless of the law. Responsible people will not drive when impaired and reckless people will continue to do so. Legalisation won't make much long term difference to usage, just a difference to law enforcement costs and the destructive effects a criminal penalty can have on people's lives.

[Tellos Athenaios]

We can rent them out to China. Outsourcing can benefit us as well!

Yeah. Plus I think with all your highly trained medical staff you can probably cut an organ transplant deal as well... And you could sell empty territory to China to expand into. Would also solve the Puerto Rico problem, and help the balance sheet.

[a completely inoffensive name]

The War on Drugs is now going have its guns pointed at citizens "who matter" (aka, boring, middle class, probably white, business people). It will be interesting how the public reacts.