Secession

[Veho Nex]

Secession is on the minds of some states today as petitions are filed.

Secession news article.

Huffington Post article.

I think these guys are crying way to hard about who won the seat in the white house. Civil war ala 2012 coming up.

[Fisherking]

LOL ok, I think the secession of Eastern Washington made it on the ballot once. I don’t think we need to take it seriously until State Legislatures start voting themselves out of the union

[rvg]

This is a non-issue.

[Lemur]

Yup, I would take this about as seriously as I took various threats by Dems to move to Canada during the Bush 43 years. Good for entertainment value, nothing more.

The only notable thing about secessionists is when politicos flirt with them. This is not taking place right now.

[Beskar]

Yup, I would take this about as seriously as I took various threats by Dems to move to Canada during the Bush 43 years. Good for entertainment value, nothing more.

Being honest, I would probably have moved to Canada if I was American.

Though Australia is always tempting.

[rvg]

Being honest, I would probably have moved to Canada if I was American...

I doubt it.

[gaelic cowboy]

I feel like there should be an Onion article in this somewhere but I cant find it.

[drone]

Since many of the states where these are filed from couldn't survive without federal funding, I don't see this going anywhere.

Lefties complained and "threatened" to leave the country after the Bush 43 election, so this is just typical of the current climate. The whole "we won/we lost" crap really gets on my nerves though. We are all Americans and we are all getting screwed over by the same people.

If some of the nuts don't want to live in the upcoming godless Sodom that is inevitable with a second Obama term, I can suggest a couple of places they might like. I hear the Middle East is the place to be if you want religious fundamentalism and women as second class citizens.

[Idaho]

Troubling times:

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/i...-2012111448938

[Fisherking]

Just so you guys know, there are now Secession petitions from all 50 states.

[Lemur]

Just so you guys know, there are now Secession petitions from all 50 states.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Just so you guys know, there are now Secession petitions from all 50 states.

If only all those people lived in the same state....

[Greyblades]

here's hoping it actually is just all bluster and short lived idiocy; while humorous I dont think america undertaking the most hillariously one sided civil war in all history is going to result in anything good.

[HoreTore]

Anyone who thinks this is worth taking seriously is horribly overstating the importance of these "petitions."

I'm curious.

Is this actually a legal petition, or what? I realize no state is going to secede, of course, but are they using an actual legal procedure, or is it just "these 1000 signatures demand X"?

[a completely inoffensive name]

I'm curious.

Is this actually a legal petition, or what? I realize no state is going to secede, of course, but are they using an actual legal procedure, or is it just "these 1000 signatures demand X"?

There is no legal procedure for secession.

[HoreTore]

There is no legal procedure for secession.

I realize that.

What I'm wondering is whether or not they're using something which has legal weight for other issues...

[Fisherking]

They are just petitions submitted to the Whitehouse website. There is something about petitions which have more than 120,000 signatures is a 30 day window will get a response.

Who knows what that will be. One option open to the President is to have all these people picked up using the authority of the NDAA and detained indefinitely. That would teach them not to complain too loudly, wouldn’t it.

[Greyblades]

Anyone who thinks this is worth taking seriously is horribly overstating the importance of these "petitions."

And anyone who isnt taking this seriously is horribly underestimating the idiocy of the average redneck.

[Lemur]

the average redneck.

I dispute the use of the word "average." In Texas, for example, approx 3 million voters went for Obama, while a 110k or so signed a petition for secession. (I guess they're hoping that Obama will look at it, and, uh, comment on it. Or something. Idiotas.)

The people signing these petitions are a minority of a minority of a minority. Nothing "average" about them.

[Greyblades]

I dispute the use of the word "average." In Texas, for example, approx 3 million voters went for Obama, while a mere 20k or so signed a petition for secession. Hoping that Obama will look at it, and, uh, comment on it. Or something.

The people signing these petitions are a minority of a minority of a minority. Nothing "average" about them.

I dont generally think of every texan as a redneck, just the really stupid rural ones.

[Major Robert Dump]

I have family on FB actually having an "intellignet" debate on "succetion" vs "nullafacation", and the "consttional" implications of both.

[rvg]

My condolences.

[Greyblades]

Dude. No.

These are not real petitions. They are internet petitions that don't require proof of identity or proof of residence. It is a complete farce, and nothing more than the losing side in an election letting off a little steam.

Yep and I half expect some idiot will take it seriously, attempt to get people to rise up and find some likeminded twits to go get arrested with.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I've recently read that Abraham Lincoln won 2% of the Southern Vote. We are in a time almost completely different from that one. Am I ok with a dissolution of the United States as it currently exists? I'm amenable to the discussion. Do I believe that we are living in a time anywhere near the polarization of the 1850's? Nope. However, I don't see the reason why the United States cannot allow a devolution of authority in a similar way to the UK is approaching it. So, the Brits are thinking about letting the Scots out of the unification - why? because they are "Scottish", whatever the hell that means? I don't see a reason why States cannot secede if the vast and overwhelming population is no longer interested in staying a part of a nation that they believe has become divorced from their people's aspirations. I don't see why we would have to go to war with a sovereign Texas any more than we have to go to war with a sovereign Canada or Mexico. This time is different from the realpolitikal situation in 1861.

I believe in the fundamentals of the United States, but I have no connection to the patriotism that was exhibited by my grandparents. I am more attached to the ideas than the State. Where the State strengthens those ideals, I support it, where it weakens, I oppose. I would like to see many of those ideas spread around the world. States probably shouldn't be dissolved for frivolous reasons (such as "Scottishness" or "Basqueness"), but the question is - in a free society where an individual has the right to leave an agreement or association, it stands to reason that groups of individuals have the right to leave an agreement or association. Personally, I favor a Federal system with a weak central government. That's where my support can be found.

[ICantSpellDawg]

That's a bit of a loopy argument. Who decides which ideals and objectives are "serious". Are their objectives dumb? Probably. Does that mean that if the population wants to go off and be dumb that they don't have a right to it? I doubt it. Obviously, if we believe that we have a better way to do things we should proselytize.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Its not that hard to wrap your head around, actually. Its really, really basic if you respect democratic principles. Is a region united in its desire to be independent? Is that region capable of governing itself? Then let it be so, because nobody has the right to hold a group hostage under a system they don't want to participate in.

You can dress up counter-arguments to that all you like, but self-determination is something that must be taken to its logical extreme, or its not really self-determination. However, as I said before, that is not the case here. Random and unverifiable internet petitions from a non-representative group of unverifiable people is not grounds for secession.

Well I don't argue with that, postings on the internet by random or unverified posters are not responsible or worth much comment. If a State like Texs came forward, as a State after taking a referendum, I would have no opposition to allowing it to become a sovereign state.