Secession

[gaelic cowboy]

If these States secede though whats the deal with all the treaties with the native american people, could be trouble on the range yet mammy

[The Lurker Below]

it's entirely believable that all those people with 2 cars in their driveway, their manicured lawns, and their 401ks are about to revolt. watch out!

[Major Robert Dump]

Texas cannot secede because it would mess up the BIG 12.

[Fisherking]

Just so you guys know, there are now Secession petitions from all 50 states.

[Lemur]

Just so you guys know, there are now Secession petitions from all 50 states.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Just so you guys know, there are now Secession petitions from all 50 states.

If only all those people lived in the same state....

[Greyblades]

here's hoping it actually is just all bluster and short lived idiocy; while humorous I dont think america undertaking the most hillariously one sided civil war in all history is going to result in anything good.

[HoreTore]

Anyone who thinks this is worth taking seriously is horribly overstating the importance of these "petitions."

I'm curious.

Is this actually a legal petition, or what? I realize no state is going to secede, of course, but are they using an actual legal procedure, or is it just "these 1000 signatures demand X"?

[a completely inoffensive name]

I'm curious.

Is this actually a legal petition, or what? I realize no state is going to secede, of course, but are they using an actual legal procedure, or is it just "these 1000 signatures demand X"?

There is no legal procedure for secession.

[HoreTore]

There is no legal procedure for secession.

I realize that.

What I'm wondering is whether or not they're using something which has legal weight for other issues...

[Fisherking]

They are just petitions submitted to the Whitehouse website. There is something about petitions which have more than 120,000 signatures is a 30 day window will get a response.

Who knows what that will be. One option open to the President is to have all these people picked up using the authority of the NDAA and detained indefinitely. That would teach them not to complain too loudly, wouldn’t it.

[Greyblades]

Anyone who thinks this is worth taking seriously is horribly overstating the importance of these "petitions."

And anyone who isnt taking this seriously is horribly underestimating the idiocy of the average redneck.

[Lemur]

the average redneck.

I dispute the use of the word "average." In Texas, for example, approx 3 million voters went for Obama, while a 110k or so signed a petition for secession. (I guess they're hoping that Obama will look at it, and, uh, comment on it. Or something. Idiotas.)

The people signing these petitions are a minority of a minority of a minority. Nothing "average" about them.

[Greyblades]

I dispute the use of the word "average." In Texas, for example, approx 3 million voters went for Obama, while a mere 20k or so signed a petition for secession. Hoping that Obama will look at it, and, uh, comment on it. Or something.

The people signing these petitions are a minority of a minority of a minority. Nothing "average" about them.

I dont generally think of every texan as a redneck, just the really stupid rural ones.

[Major Robert Dump]

I have family on FB actually having an "intellignet" debate on "succetion" vs "nullafacation", and the "consttional" implications of both.

[rvg]

My condolences.

[Fisherking]

People never cease to amaze me. You know about half the population is below average in intelligence by definition.

Just because someone disagrees with your view of the world does not automatically make them stupid.
Just as those who hold different political views are not automatically evil.

Living in a rural setting does not make one stupid and living in an urban area is no measure of intellect.

Such observations only highlight the ignorance of such world views.

I would tend to agree with the view that these petitions are just to get a reaction.

I am very interested in what that reaction might be. I am also interested in the Administration’s reaction to the legalized weed in two states.

This is supposed to be a liberal or progressive administration, though some of their policies and laws they have supported seem anything but.

If nothing else, it may shed some light on what the next four years will be like.

[Montmorency]

Just because someone disagrees with your view of the world does not automatically make them stupid.
Just as those who hold different political views are not automatically evil.

Not "automatically"? After due consideration, then?

I am very interested in what that reaction might be.

The Texas petition on the White House site has over 110K signatures. It may just receive a stock response from the aide responsible for such things. The response will not contain anything of note - perhaps a few platitudes on resolving justified grievances, building confidence, and the importance of national unity. The few folks who are serious about secession are already under observation, to be sure. This isn't really an important development, politically or as a glimpse into government policy on agitation and seperatism. Do you expect a public threat to be issued, or something?

Living in a rural setting does not make one stupid and living in an urban area is no measure of intellect.

My interpretation was that only stupid rural types are covered in his definition of redneck - not necessarily that rural Texans are stupid.

[Greyblades]

People never cease to amaze me. You know about half the population is below average in intelligence by definition.

Yep, and the people I find rock chewingly dim are, by my definition, stupid.

Just because someone disagrees with your view of the world does not automatically make them stupid.

Yep.

Just as those who hold different political views are not automatically evil.

Yep.

Living in a rural setting does not make one stupid and living in an urban area is no measure of intellect.

Did I say it was? I believe I said; stupid and rural.

[Csargo]

There are a bunch of signatures from people who don't even live in the same state as the petition is for. I don't understand

[Tellos Athenaios]

There are a bunch of signatures from people who don't even live in the same state as the petition is for. I don't understand

Goodbye and good riddance?

[Greyblades]

Dude. No.

These are not real petitions. They are internet petitions that don't require proof of identity or proof of residence. It is a complete farce, and nothing more than the losing side in an election letting off a little steam.

Yep and I half expect some idiot will take it seriously, attempt to get people to rise up and find some likeminded twits to go get arrested with.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I've recently read that Abraham Lincoln won 2% of the Southern Vote. We are in a time almost completely different from that one. Am I ok with a dissolution of the United States as it currently exists? I'm amenable to the discussion. Do I believe that we are living in a time anywhere near the polarization of the 1850's? Nope. However, I don't see the reason why the United States cannot allow a devolution of authority in a similar way to the UK is approaching it. So, the Brits are thinking about letting the Scots out of the unification - why? because they are "Scottish", whatever the hell that means? I don't see a reason why States cannot secede if the vast and overwhelming population is no longer interested in staying a part of a nation that they believe has become divorced from their people's aspirations. I don't see why we would have to go to war with a sovereign Texas any more than we have to go to war with a sovereign Canada or Mexico. This time is different from the realpolitikal situation in 1861.

I believe in the fundamentals of the United States, but I have no connection to the patriotism that was exhibited by my grandparents. I am more attached to the ideas than the State. Where the State strengthens those ideals, I support it, where it weakens, I oppose. I would like to see many of those ideas spread around the world. States probably shouldn't be dissolved for frivolous reasons (such as "Scottishness" or "Basqueness"), but the question is - in a free society where an individual has the right to leave an agreement or association, it stands to reason that groups of individuals have the right to leave an agreement or association. Personally, I favor a Federal system with a weak central government. That's where my support can be found.

[ICantSpellDawg]

That's a bit of a loopy argument. Who decides which ideals and objectives are "serious". Are their objectives dumb? Probably. Does that mean that if the population wants to go off and be dumb that they don't have a right to it? I doubt it. Obviously, if we believe that we have a better way to do things we should proselytize.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Its not that hard to wrap your head around, actually. Its really, really basic if you respect democratic principles. Is a region united in its desire to be independent? Is that region capable of governing itself? Then let it be so, because nobody has the right to hold a group hostage under a system they don't want to participate in.

You can dress up counter-arguments to that all you like, but self-determination is something that must be taken to its logical extreme, or its not really self-determination. However, as I said before, that is not the case here. Random and unverifiable internet petitions from a non-representative group of unverifiable people is not grounds for secession.

Well I don't argue with that, postings on the internet by random or unverified posters are not responsible or worth much comment. If a State like Texs came forward, as a State after taking a referendum, I would have no opposition to allowing it to become a sovereign state.