Concerning Dyslexia

[Husar]

Disability? How can you define "stupidity", if not by "disability"?

Lazyness. Sometimes you may notice that people don't use their brain and then you explain something to them and they understand it perfectly well. They're not disabled or unable, they just didn't invest any time into thinking about the issue. And for a moment they are stupid because they decide not to use their brain capacity.*

I'm going to pour some mor gasoline on this thread:

Inability to write is associated with boys. Inability to do maths is associated with girls. The boys get help and understanding, the girls got nothing but contempt. The school system(and society) is focused on problems boys face, while ignoring girls.

The argument that the school is designed for girls is nonsense. The school is designed for boys.

Maybe in your chauvinistic socialist paradise...




*For more information about brain capacity, please visit your local church of scientology.

[HoreTore]

First of all: loved the scientlogy referance

Laziness doesn't cut it as a definition though. Laziness can be the cause of an inability to do something, but laziness isn't the inability itself.

Also, I would use "disinterest" instead of "laziness", if course

Still, that gets us nowhere. We still have a group of people who all struggle to understand X, and society treats them differently depending on what that X is. One group is called "dyslectic", the other groups are called "dumb".

My chauvinist socialist paradise is apparently ruled by a man-hating and authoritarian feminist state. Yours is too, btw. This is supposedly shown especially well in our school system.

I'd say it's the other way around.

[Husar]

Laziness doesn't cut it as a definition though. Laziness can be the cause of an inability to do something, but laziness isn't the inability itself.

Also, I would use "disinterest" instead of "laziness", if course

Sometimes it's just dumb to be that disinterested...

Still, that gets us nowhere. We still have a group of people who all struggle to understand X, and society treats them differently depending on what that X is. One group is called "dyslectic", the other groups are called "dumb".

Well, sometimes "dumb" means less intelligent and while I'm aware that intelligence is hard to define, especially if you want dumb people to understand it, that's just the case. Of course the word has a negative connotation, but so does "poor". Noone wants to be poor or dumb, but some people are, whether it is their own fault is a different question.

My chauvinist socialist paradise is apparently ruled by a man-hating and authoritarian feminist state. Yours is too, btw. This is supposedly shown especially well in our school system.

I'd say it's the other way around.

Sorry for being dumb, but what exactly do you mean now? I know more girls who excell at maths than boys, now I'm not a teacher but you are so I assume you just wanted to come clean on the fact that you prefer boys and neglect girls and it's not just you but all Norwegian teachers.

[HoreTore]

I connect with boys on a personal level faster than girls, but I connect with girls on an educational level faster than boys. Anyhoo:

It was an argument against the right-wing antifeminist rant about schools being designed to favour girls instead of boys.

As for actual ability comparisons: more girls are in the bottom end of the math scale, but more girls are also in the upper end. Boys dominate the middle. Funnily, the graphs for boy/girl ability match the majority/immigrant graph... But that's a subject for a different thread!

Yes, "dumb" means "less intelligent". How can we define "less intelligent", if not by looking at a persons abilities? Also, dyslexia isn't a reason why a person can't write. A person isn't unable to write because he has dyslexia, he has dyslexia because he can't write. In other words, "because he's too dumb/unintelligent to write".

Following your posts arguments, dyslectics are thus defined as dumb. Is that a fair definition?

[Hax]

First of all: loved the scientlogy referance

Can't even spell "reference" correctly. God, you're dumb, aren't you?

[HoreTore]

I am indeed!

I blame the "scientlogy"-spelling on the iPad's keyboard, but the misspelled "reference" is all mine. I hate that word, I usually screw it up when writing Norwegian too...

[Andres]

So, if I understand you correctly, your point is that you dislike the fact that people with a mental disability that hasn't gotten a label yet are called "dumb" while those who have gotten a label (dyslexia, dyscalcula, dyscetera) have a fancy name for their disability? And not only that, the latter group gets attention and special treatment to help them overcome their disability, while the former are just treated badly and called "dumb"?
@HoreTore

[HoreTore]

So, if I understand you correctly, your point is that you dislike the fact that people with a mental disability that hasn't gotten a label yet are called "dumb" while those who have gotten a label (dyslexia, dyscalcula, dyscetera) have a fancy name for their disability? And not only that, the latter group gets attention and special treatment to help them overcome their disability, while the former are just treated badly and called "dumb"?
@HoreTore

Correct, except for calling it a "mental disability".

[Husar]

I connect with boys on a personal level faster than girls, but I connect with girls on an educational level faster than boys. Anyhoo:

It was an argument against the right-wing antifeminist rant about schools being designed to favour girls instead of boys.

Partisan politics. Don't let Europe become another America by engaging in even more "us vs. them" political bigotry that leads to a two-party system!

As for actual ability comparisons: more girls are in the bottom end of the math scale, but more girls are also in the upper end. Boys dominate the middle. Funnily, the graphs for boy/girl ability match the majority/immigrant graph... But that's a subject for a different thread!

No, it just proves that girls are indeed from another planet.*

Yes, "dumb" means "less intelligent". How can we define "less intelligent", if not by looking at a persons abilities? Also, dyslexia isn't a reason why a person can't write. A person isn't unable to write because he has dyslexia, he has dyslexia because he can't write. In other words, "because he's too dumb/unintelligent to write".

Following your posts arguments, dyslectics are thus defined as dumb. Is that a fair definition?

No, I don't know why you are being so unfair.
On the topic of unfair, it wasn't a fair interpretation either because intelligence is not based on a single ability and I never claimed that it was. Dumb also doesn't mean "less intelligent", it means "below a subjectively insufficient threshold of intelligence"!

And this needs separate treatment:

Also, dyslexia isn't a reason why a person can't write. A person isn't unable to write because he has dyslexia, he has dyslexia because he can't write. In other words, "because he's too dumb/unintelligent to write".

The bolded term is completely nonsensical because you say the same thing twice, "dyslexia" is a synonym or name for "unable to write", neither is the cause or effect. The cause is, and I'm not a doctor, some deficiency in a certain part of the brain that does not affect other parts of the brain as far as I can tell. The effect is dyslexia or being unable to write.
However, a deficiency in a small does not make someone dumb overall. Especially unintelligent, but also dumb are terms that refer to the overall mental state of a person and not just some small area, as such neither term fits. If I say someone is "too dumb to drive" it's insulting because I assume that the overall intelligence of that person is too low to perform a task that most people can master even though the ability to drive has no bearing on mathematical or other talents, just like dyslexia.
Intelligence is more like the average of a person's mental capabilities and not just the lowest single ability, just like your grade in a 10-task-exam is not just the grade of the task you couldn't solve but the average of your score in all ten tasks.




*For more information about being from another planet, please consult your local church of scientology.**

**I know it gets old, but don't we all?

[HoreTore]

I am not attacking your values, Husar, I'm attacking the values of society as a whole. If you don't consider someone someone who can't do math stupid, then good. The fact remains that I have several students who feel like complete failures and idiots because they just can't wrap their minds around statistics. The number of people who feel that way because they have trouble writing is drastically lower. This is due to the term dyslexia and how society has accepted that inability.

Dyslexia doesn't have a cause. "Dyslexia" is the term we give for those who have specific difficulties with writing. There are several reasons why people have such problems, from a number of causes, both biological and enviromental.

And the sentence you bolded doesn't say "the same thing twice". The order of things is switched in the second half.

[Beskar]

So the premise of the thread is that people with marked disabilities such as dyslexica, dyspraxia, dyscalculia, autism, aspergers, ADHD are simply stupid people with fancy titles is in complete contrast to neurological impairments found in research which demonstrates evidence of different 'wiring' within the brain compared to typical brain samples of people and in a subsection of that, people who simply are too lazy to check the validity of sources and pigeon-hole themselves in the conservative bubbles such as FOX news, reading only the headlines which makes them 'stupid'.

People with disabilities are stigmatised heavily in society, even in the past exterminated / sterilised for conditions and yet you inflame the situation because a couple of forum members felt comfortable enough to express they had a disability to each other, you find it is totally okay to phrase your topic like this when it is your own ignorance on the matter which is at fault.

The fact remains that I have several students who feel like complete failures and idiots because they just can't wrap their minds around statistics.

Dyscalculia is one cause, the other is bad teachers since many Maths teachers are unable to adequately teach maths and just expect the students to magically do it. When I first did algebra I was utterly confused by these letters since letters were not numbers and the teacher didn't teach us, it was only when some one sat me down and explained then I went "Oh.. that's easy". If your students really do have difficulties as they show signs of a neuralogical disorder such as dyscalculia, then recommend them to your school educational psychologist. If there are grounds for suspicion, they will be investigated and these students can get the help they need and are entitled to.



As for your phrasing, I could reword your post into a race-debate if that makes you understand why people found it offensive. It would look like this -

It is the equal of arguing:
Now, 'Black' people have gained a large social acceptance. I find that acceptance very puzzling. Can someone here explain to me why it's a-okay to publicly state that you're 'black'?

Class Room Experience:
I have some 'Arabian' people in my class, they are struggling since 9/11 and they are not receiving the same acceptance, the system is corrupt and biased as they are not getting the help they need

Why are they called stupid and not ethnic minorities:
'White' people who spend too much time in the sun and getting sun burned are simply classed as stupid 'white people' by society, they are not given the same treatment as ethnic minorities.

[Husar]

I am not attacking your values, Husar, I'm attacking the values of society as a whole. If you don't consider someone someone who can't do math stupid, then good.

I know and I'm challenging your attack, although it's okay if you have doublexia.

The fact remains that I have several students who feel like complete failures and idiots because they just can't wrap their minds around statistics. The number of people who feel that way because they have trouble writing is drastically lower. This is due to the term dyslexia and how society has accepted that inability.

Is that so or do you just assume it is? How are the treatments for other conditions? Of course they shouldn't feel that way but then again even I am dumb and sometimes feel worse than I am, I doubt it's because I lack a name for my disorders.

Dyslexia doesn't have a cause. "Dyslexia" is the term we give for those who have specific difficulties with writing. There are several reasons why people have such problems, from a number of causes, both biological and enviromental.

Tiaexz already answered this (see quote below).

And the sentence you bolded doesn't say "the same thing twice". The order of things is switched in the second half.

The order of words but not the order of the content because you just switched synonyms!
So basically it says the same thing twice...

So the premise of the thread is that people with marked disabilities such as dyslexica, dyspraxia, dyscalculia, autism, aspergers, ADHD are simply dumb people with fancy titles is in complete contrast to neurological impairments found in research which demonstrates evidence of different 'wiring' within the brain compared to atypical brain samples of people who simply are too lazy to check the validity of sources and pigeon-hole themselves in the conservative bubbles such as FOX news, reading only the headlines which makes them 'dumb'.

No, I think his point is that dyscalculia should get more social acceptance to make kids with dyscalculia feel great like kids with the socially dyslexia already do. Additionally I assume that he thinks people who watch Fox News all day aren't really dumb, just born that way and should get a fancy name for their disorder, like dysfoxia, so they can feel great about their birth condition as well.

What is interesting in this context is that you say different wiring in the brain, which is my understanding as well, while HoreTore adds "environmental" to that in what is no doubt a lame attempt to direct the topic towards class warfare. Of course I would like to see some evidence that dyslexia is caused by "environmental" effects that do not have anything to do with the brain and does not just victimize analphabets by reframing them dyslexics due to "environmental" effects.

People with disabilities are stigmatised heavily in society, even in the past exterminated / sterilised for conditions and yet you inflame the situation because a couple of forum members felt comfortable enough to express they had a disability to each other, you find it is totally okay to phrase your topic like this when it is your own ignorance on the matter which is at fault.

I think he has an impairment to bring his point across in the OP and the topic, we could call it "dystopia" so he can feel better about it.