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Thread: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

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    Default I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    I have had to restart my campaign several times now just out of frustration with the settlement management system. I like to play as Scipii, and I usually take Sciccily without too many hiccups. but as the game progresses tiny little empire just crumbles in on itself due to recession and being un able to provide adequate troops and troops types to defeat the carthaginians.

    I always massacre each settlement I take over to reduce the cultural difference and curb the squalor down etc. I try to build nearly every turn, I build sewers, baths etc etc however it's only a matter of time untill the squalor sky rockets and most of my cities fall into the recession and I am unable to progress my military efficiently. For me the settlement manage is just ruining the game for me. I find it very frustrating and is ultimately putting me off playing the game completely. What am I doing wrong?

    :(

  2. #2
    Dark Lord of Sith Member Big Bird Hunting Champion, Squid Hunter Champion, Simpsons Shooter Champion, Fun Surfing Champion Darth Feather's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    what difficulty setting are you playing on?

    I suppose you are referring to the large squalor mostely in Carthage.
    In my opinion, sometimes the solution might be: break down the baracks, put tax on very high, evacuate your army, and let the settlement rebel. Then the senate will probably give you the message to take it back in exchage for something like a minor exotic unit and then you can exterminate it again, the squalor is often caused by too large population count.

    Hope this helped
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    Annoyingly awesome Member Booger Flick Champion, Run Sam Run Champion, Speed Cards Champion rickinator9's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    If you mean low income with your recession, I bet the low income is caused by high troop upkeep. Don't garrison those cities with troops who should be in the field, garrison them with cheap units, in Scipii's case, the town guard and the peasants. The boost caused by a garrison is calculated by numbers, not skill.

    I have to say I find the Scipii the most boring of the Roman factions. You will have a nice campaign in the beginning, but once you have taken Carthage(the city), you'll have to walk through the desert for like 20 turns. The remaining Carthaginians will just keep harassing you unless you take the desert provinces.
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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    I always massacre each settlement I take over to reduce the cultural difference and curb the squalor down etc.
    Except in a few rare instances, this is a mistake, IMHO. Why, you might ask? More people=more tax income. Yes you get a quick shot of income from looting, but in the long run you hurt yourself by extermination. I've linked to a discussion in another thread about a topic that concerns ZPG (Zero Population Growth). This is what you strive for. If you look at the screenies I provided in that link, you'll see that it's quite possible to achieve ZPG even in Carthage.

    Post a screen shot or two and we can go from there......
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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...lation-Loyalty

    This is the main discussion...the other concerns family members with huge amounts of money in the coffers.

    Look in the "I'm having trouble" thread for the other.
    High Plains Drifter

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    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    The Scipii are interesting, and I believe the worst of the Romans to play as, a campaign can very quickly bog down, too little settlements and not money-making ones at that. If you take the other towns very quickly there should be no need to exterminate, you can move the screen and see their current happiness level. That is what I use, typically, to determine what I do with a settlement. If it is a town or small town I almost never exterminate. Destroying their temples helps, especially if you exterminate, and then building your own. You might see a temporary shift downward in happiness, but as you improve the temples that should change. I usually only take the coastal towns as the Scipii, leaving Dimmidi and Nepti for later, and I head toward Egypt. Dimmidi riots pretty quickly, and Nepti grows slloooowwwwllllyyyy. I will either use mercenary armies or all-cav armies to deal with the small bands of enemies. Carthage usually boils for a while, then stays in the blue happiness mode. Also, they may have a spy. Many times if a settlement is unhappy I train a spy, and the next turn I kick an enemy spy out of the settlement and they are happy again.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    The Scipii are interesting, and I believe the worst of the Romans to play as, a campaign can very quickly bog down, too little settlements and not money-making ones at that.
    You might want to rethink that if you use a different approach than the standard. Once you secure all of Sicily, kick Carthage out of Thapsus and Carthage itself, cut the heart out of the Numidians by taking their capital of Cirta, don't bother with any other desert settlement except Lepcis Magna. In other words, forget all those piss-poor desert settlements like Dimmidi, Nepte, etc. They simply aren't worth the effort. Tingi is too far away to effectively control, and heading east to the Nile comes later. Instead....

    ......send an army into Greece Cut into Brutii domain before they overrun the whole place. Come civil war time, you will be grateful for the easier task eliminating the boys in green (Romans in green are an abomination, anyways)

    You play the Scipii to make the Med your "pond" and the Decere Quinquereme does just that. With an Awesome Temple of Neptune and a dockyard, you have a chance for a 5-star admiral from the start....2 stars from the Priest of Neptune, 2 from being a Seamaster, and the 5th as a Shipwright. You'd be amazed at how many ships you sink outright in Naval battles the first go-around......

    The Scipii also get the Temple of Vulcan which allows for gold-level weapons and armor at Pantheon level combined with a Forge.

    The Scipii are the best Roman faction to play, IMHO....excellent temples, central starting location, and the coolest quinquereme (the Decere) in the game.

    Last edited by ReluctantSamurai; 05-24-2014 at 22:12.
    High Plains Drifter

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    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    I do like trying to get into Greece, and if the opportunity presents itself, I do. Money situation is awesome, for Scipii it makes enough more money to take it than to trade with Greece to be worth the attack, and I like limiting the Brutii's advance; though then they go north till they Campus Sarmatia, then they stop expansion east, or so it seems. As far as the naval units go, Scipii ships do own on the seas. I have actually taken Capua with Large or Awesome, I forget which one, Temple of Neptune, as Brutii, and was able to build Corvus Quinquiremes. Doesn't work as a non-Roman faction, though, at least not Greece. The temples are great as well, don't they all give gold sword/shield with Foundry?
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    don't they all give gold sword/shield with Foundry?
    No. Only the "forge" temples like the Scipii Vulcan, the Armenian Vahagan, the Seleucid Hephaestus, or the Egyptian Horus (even though it's classified as a 'Law' temple) when combined with a foundry, will do that. Some, like the Macedonian Artemis or Zeus, or the Gallic/Spanish Abnoba, will grant gold status to missile weapons only.
    High Plains Drifter

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    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    It seems I can remember using Saturn to get it as well, though I could be wrong. Do the others only give gold shield? When combined with foundry, Sacred Circle of Zalmoxis (can't remember if that is Scythian or Dacian) will give gold shield at least, obviously you have to capture it, as neither Scythia nor Dacia can get to Foundry.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    The entire temple guide (in PDF format) can still be found here:

    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...do=file&id=107

    There used to be an Excel version (much better format, IMO) but it doesn't seem to be available anymore. Many temples at pantheon level when combined with a forge will give you gold armor/silver weapon/silver missile status. Forge-type temples get you gold weapon status as well, and do it at the "large" level when combined with a forge. The only temples that will get you to gold status for missile weapons (including javelins) are the Temple of Artemis (Macedon), Temple of Zeus (Macedon at pantheon lvl), Gallic/Spanish Temple of Abnoba, and the Temple of Horus (Egypt at temple city level, although this is not documented....I found this out after capturing one).
    High Plains Drifter

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    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    It has been too long since I really played the RTW, I am hooked on the EB units. In a way, it is annoying as I am Rome, and have not yet reached Marian reforms, so I have to rely on levy units. At least in RTW I could retrain my troops. Maybe not realistic, but very convenient. And you could get an army really good really quickly, now, I have several good armies, but it has taken a while to get them there since they have to go back to Italy for retraining. Since this thread is about city management anyway, does the financial burden for units fall solely on the city where they are trained, or the city where they are stationed, or is it something else?

    For wisdom is a defence, and money is a defence: but the excellency of knowledge is, that wisdom giveth life to them that have it. Ecclesiastes 7:12 KJV
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    Since this thread is about city management anyway, does the financial burden for units fall solely on the city where they are trained, or the city where they are stationed, or is it something else?
    Are you referring to RTW or EB?
    High Plains Drifter

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    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    Mainly EB. I won't be playing RTW for a while, I don't think. Maybe if I feel like taking it easy.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  15. #15

    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    After taking a town with less than 2000 population:

    To reduce culture penalties delete the barracks immediately (it will only allow you to build poor units anyway). Immediately delete the trader (you'll have plenty of time to build your own before 2000 is reached). Immediately delete the temple and build your temple that gives the best happiness boost (if deleting the temple takes status below 70% you have a choice - go ahead and allow one turn of revolt, taking your units out first, or wait til unrest reduces). Check your generals and ensure the one with the highest influence is in fact governor (often this is not the case if the AI is left to choose).

    After taking a town with more than 2000 population:

    It's usually not a good idea to delete second level buildings to reduce culture penalty (much better to wait until you can improve them). Exceptions being military buildings (only kept until your army can't benefit from their presence) and temples. The temple should be replaced by your own as soon as possible. Build peasants as required and ensure the right general is left behind. Prioritise buildings that reduce the chance of revolt.

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    Immediately delete the trader
    Not necessary. When you upgrade to the next level in this slot, the building will reflect your faction and the culture penalty will disappear then.
    High Plains Drifter

  17. #17

    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    Not necessary but handy if your struggling to avoid revolt. I am thinking from the point of view of population boost to 2000+ (which I try to do ASAP) where that extra penalty removal is useful. Lack of cash might persuade me to keep it.

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    If the population is that small (<2k), you aren't going to have problems with unrest anyways, particularly if a general is present in the garrison. Better to keep the trade route open than not

    If you are overly concerned with revolts, check the link I provided above about how to achieve ZPG (Zero Population Growth). By mid-game, most of my cities don't even require a city manager, even unruly places like Carthage, Jerusalem, Tarsus, and Patavium.
    High Plains Drifter

  19. #19

    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    OK I admit it - I often leave the trader in place (I was just trying to keep it straightforward for newbies - those most likely to view this thread). The thing about ZPG is it takes time and manipulation, the trader thing is to help solve an immediate problem. On top of that I like population growth :)

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    On top of that I like population growth
    Population growth is essential from beginning to about mid-game. When populations start to hit the 16-18k mark (much sooner for barbarian cultures who don't get very good law-and-order temples), things start to get dicey. When populations get over 24k, there is no longer a need for growth, and management becomes a huge problem. This is where ZPG kicks in and reduces your headaches. I've had cities like Carthage and Memphis with populations well in excess of 30k and no governor, be permanently below the revolt threshhold.

    If you play a full campaign, ZPG should be a big part of your planning.....unless, of course, you like aggravation
    High Plains Drifter

  21. #21

    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    Aggravation I can handle :)

    I agree with most of what you say. I like to play conquering the entire known world so I end up with many cities well over 24k (my record is 42k with that city on turkey's north coast - not the pain in the neck one). I also use very few governors except in distant newly conquered places.

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    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    Aggravation I can handle
    I rarely play a campaign to the bitter end, anymore. If I get aggravated, I usually start another game....

    Then step out and allow to revolt and enslave again
    This is rarely a good idea unless you are looking for experience. Don't ever do this with a post-Marian Roman city where the faction is still alive. You will be looking at nothing but Praetorian/Urban Cohorts and Cavalry with all kinds of weapon/armor upgrades and experience chevrons to go with it.... The last time I played Egypt (many, many moons ago and before I figured out how to ensure ZPG), I did this to a Greek city that had been held for a long time by the Brutii. Had my faction leader and most of my best troops. Lost over half my army, damn near got my young faction leader killed, and there were still enough elite Roman units left in the city that I had to come back later to recapture it.

    In reality, you lose income when you allow a city to revolt and then exterminate the rebellion. Less people=less taxes. Yes you free up temporary funds from the looting factor, but the city income will fall drastically and won't recover until the city population does. If you really don't want to learn how to manage ZPG, at least crank out peasants every turn and send them to cities that need population, or put them on a boat and get them sunk
    High Plains Drifter

  23. #23

    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    Aye, it's difficult to keep going when your just going through the motions and it's clear you've won easily.

    I should have added the caveat (as you point out) that this should only be done when the original owning faction has been destroyed (otherwise they come back). If I am using the technique I usually reserve it for the likes of Tanais (large city, high growth and built in unrest). Even after exterminating it soon becomes a problem. Maybe I'm attracted by the aggravation but I enjoy trying to control the city.

    I'll pass on ZPG (more population means more income) because I usually end up with a lot more gold than I can spend. I use the double enslave as a nice population boost for other cities that need it.

    p.s. I presume people are still playing this game a decade on because it is so good, and Rome 2 doesn't add much?

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    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    Quote Originally Posted by williamsiddell View Post
    I should have added the caveat (as you point out) that this should only be done when the original owning faction has been destroyed (otherwise they come back).
    So that is why some of my uprisings simply go rebel, the town started the game rebel or an eliminated faction? Sometimes it might be worth it to remove a coliseum, though I usually don't, if you leave that in place and get kicked out, you get a gladiator uprising. Situation depending, could be good, usually they are all peasants and Velite and Samnite Gladiators, in other words, no missile units. If you can set a phalanx up at a bridge, those rebels can't do much. That said, not all Gladiator Uprisings are of that kind, some are weird units, such as Amazon Chariots, Yubtseb Elephants, and other exotic units. The vast majority of the Gladiator Uprisings just seem to involve only peasants and gladiators. About half of those seem to be the really good armies, two gold chevron, silver sword, gold shield.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  25. #25

    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincent Butler View Post
    if you leave that in place and get kicked out, you get a gladiator uprising.
    Sounds like you have a really tough time with all those weird units :) I can't remember seeing those types myself, but I'll expect them now. I think you're right - if they rebel to rebel they started the game like that, or are eliminated faction.

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    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    Very rarely will you see an exotic unit Gladiator Uprising, I would say only about 5% at max, and usually in cities that the Scipii owned or took over, and even then only rarely. Especially as I said, if I have a phalanx and can withdraw to a bridge, provided there are not a lot of missile units(and in a standard Gladiator Uprising there are none) I just pull out and wait for them to revolt and attack my army. If I have siege weapons, so much the better. If a revolt will lead to the town going to Egypt or Rome, definitely have an onager in the city, most of the times a revolting-to-Rome or Egypt army will have some siege weapons in them, and they can really hurt a phalanx. Their siege weapons won't target your onagers, though enemy archers might.
    if they rebel to rebel they started the game like that, or are eliminated faction.
    I will have to pay attention to confirm that.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  27. #27
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    So that is why some of my uprisings simply go rebel, the town started the game rebel or an eliminated faction?
    Depends on who the original town was assigned to (you'd have to check in the .txt files). For instance, Cyrene starts the game as a rebel settlement. If another faction captures it (usually Egypt or Numidia) and it rebels on them, kicking out the garrison, there's a strong possibility it goes over to Macedon, who is the original "owning" faction stated in the descr_.txt file covering settlements. Palmyra is a Parthian owner even though it starts as a rebel settlement. Had it happen to me in a Parthian campaign...the town went rebel on the Big E and it came over to me. Got me into a war with Egypt when I wasn't ready for them
    High Plains Drifter

  28. #28
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    Quote Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai View Post
    there's a strong possibility it goes over to Macedon, who is the original "owning" faction stated in the descr_.txt file covering settlements. Palmyra is a Parthian owner even though it starts as a rebel settlement. Had it happen to me in a Parthian campaign...the town went rebel on the Big E and it came over to me. Got me into a war with Egypt when I wasn't ready for them
    I have had Cyrene go to me even when it did not belong to anybody, at least not that I knew of. Could be I just did not know it was owned, I typically don't pay attention to the end-of-turn diplomacy announcements, so I could have gone to war with Egypt and not noticed it. Good to know about Palmyra, though I will almost never try Parthia, and I don't like playing as Egypt either.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

  29. #29
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    so I could have gone to war with Egypt and not noticed it.
    You'd have noticed it pretty quick when several stacks of 'Nile Gold' suddenly descend on your poor desert settlement, and Egyptian fleets appear outside your ports on 'search-and-destroy' missions....
    High Plains Drifter

  30. #30
    Requin Member Vincent Butler's Avatar
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    Default Re: I'm Strugling with settlement management :(

    I try to fortify Cyrene against Egypt anyway. Numidian Cav and militia/merc hoplites for starters, but I try to get some pikemen down pretty quickly. In town, their chariot archers will not be very effective. If I border an enemy (or an ally, except as Roman bordering Roman), I like to keep a garrison that I feel can hold out against most attacks that would get thrown against it. Only when preparing for civil war do I fortify my Roman towns bordering Roman allies. Rome is a horrible ally if you are not already Roman, they love to backstab you. Ditto for Britannia. Egypt is probably one of the best for keeping alliances when both are powerful, at least from what I have experienced.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength, which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight: Psalm 144:1

    In peace there's nothing so becomes a man
    As modest stillness and humility:
    But when the blast of war blows in our ears,
    Then imitate the action of the tiger;
    -Henry V by William Shakespeare

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