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Thread: Newtown School Shootings
Originally Posted by Husar:
Many of these people are outcasts of some sort who feel they have nothing to lose anymore, calling them insane is just an easy explanation for people who don't want to think about it or reconsider anything.
Then again if you think it's normal, why are you so shocked and sad? If you're saying it's essentially no different from the 500 traffic deaths every year then there's no reason to be any more sorry over this than over the 500 dead people from traffic accidents every year.
As you said, they are outcasts. There is nothing that can be done about outcasts, in ANY system they will always exist. Predictably people start claiming this for their own uses, lack of god, lack of gun control, too much liberal upbringing, too much conservative upbringing, whatever suits them. Stop claiming it. There is NOTHING that will stop this from happening again as there will always be people who lose it.Many of these people are outcasts of some sort who feel they have nothing to lose anymore, calling them insane is just an easy explanation for people who don't want to think about it or reconsider anything.
Then again if you think it's normal, why are you so shocked and sad? If you're saying it's essentially no different from the 500 traffic deaths every year then there's no reason to be any more sorry over this than over the 500 dead people from traffic accidents every year.
Originally Posted by Fragony:
As you said, they are outcasts. There is nothing that can be done about outcasts, in ANY system they will always exist. Predictably people start claiming this for their own uses, lack of god, lack of gun control, too much liberal upbringing, too much conservative upbringing, whatever suits them. Stop claiming it. There is NOTHING that will stop this from happening again as there will always be people who lose it.
What can be done is to make people stop casting others out. We've stopped casting gays out of society, why can't we stop casting geeks and other "strange" people out? We still haven't cast you out of this forum either so don't say it's impossible not to do. As you said, they are outcasts. There is nothing that can be done about outcasts, in ANY system they will always exist. Predictably people start claiming this for their own uses, lack of god, lack of gun control, too much liberal upbringing, too much conservative upbringing, whatever suits them. Stop claiming it. There is NOTHING that will stop this from happening again as there will always be people who lose it.
Originally Posted by Husar:
What can be done is to make people stop casting others out. We've stopped casting gays out of society, why can't we stop casting geeks and other "strange" people out? We still haven't cast you out of this forum either so don't say it's impossible not to do.
We stopped lawful discrimisation of gays, the social stigma remains, just changing the laws means little to their everyday life. Look! We put it on paper everything is different from now on, twelve a'clock let's lunch. That's a reality that only exists on paper, it has nothing to do with the harrasment gay couples still endure. When complaining about said harrasment they get to read a piece of paper, as if that helps them to have it on paper. It's a reality that only exists on paper.What can be done is to make people stop casting others out. We've stopped casting gays out of society, why can't we stop casting geeks and other "strange" people out? We still haven't cast you out of this forum either so don't say it's impossible not to do.
Horrible tragedies are just a fact of life. Sometimes someone will snap. That isn't very fun but what do you suggest?
States should pass a law allowing concealed carry in formerly no carry zones. It should be sort of like the Air Marshall system; with a few weeks of training, school staff are allowed to bring small firearms to class, concealed, IWB, with a heavy police grade trigger, a. Level 3 holster and they should be asked not to discuss the fact with anyone.
You'll never be able to stop rampages, but you must be able to reduce death toll. Like it or not, kids are sheep and cannot defend themselves. When faced with these situations, they need responsible adults to protect them more reliably than this
You'll never be able to stop rampages, but you must be able to reduce death toll. Like it or not, kids are sheep and cannot defend themselves. When faced with these situations, they need responsible adults to protect them more reliably than this
Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg:
States should pass a law allowing concealed carry in formerly no carry zones. It should be sort of like the Air Marshall system; with a few weeks of training, school staff are allowed to bring small firearms to class, concealed, IWB, with a heavy police grade trigger, a. Level 3 holster and they should be asked not to discuss the fact with anyone.
You'll never be able to stop rampages, but you must be able to reduce death toll. Like it or not, kids are sheep and cannot defend themselves. When faced with these situations, they need responsible adults to protect them more reliably than this
You want to live in a country where primary school teachers carry weapons in class? States should pass a law allowing concealed carry in formerly no carry zones. It should be sort of like the Air Marshall system; with a few weeks of training, school staff are allowed to bring small firearms to class, concealed, IWB, with a heavy police grade trigger, a. Level 3 holster and they should be asked not to discuss the fact with anyone.
You'll never be able to stop rampages, but you must be able to reduce death toll. Like it or not, kids are sheep and cannot defend themselves. When faced with these situations, they need responsible adults to protect them more reliably than this
I keep seeing this suggested as a solution today, and it's the most pathetic and moronic thing i think I've ever read.
Of course its moronic. Deterrence relies on display hence a 0.50 cal. machine gun on the desk and an assault rifle in hand. Truly, it would send a message...
Not all teachers should carry, just some. The principle, assistant principle, some others, maybe randomized so they can't be individually targeted as easily. There would be a courses similar to the auxiliary air marshalls course. We do it on flights. People should be able to carry concealed, children should be protected and with special training there should be responsible people available to make sure that these rampages go from 25 to 10. More rapidly than waiting for police to get there to pick up the bodies. It would slow most shooters down and instead of easily running room to room them may be forced to take cover while kids flee and police arrive
Originally Posted by Catiline:
You want to live in a country where primary school teachers carry weapons in class?
I keep seeing this suggested as a solution today, and it's the most pathetic and moronic thing i think I've ever read.
Those yankees love it! They love shooting guns. Not only is it fun, but it defends them against the US government and the King of England. So anything that prevents gun ownership is crazy and will never work.You want to live in a country where primary school teachers carry weapons in class?
I keep seeing this suggested as a solution today, and it's the most pathetic and moronic thing i think I've ever read.
The social stigma is much lower today than it was in 1950 for example, these changes obviously do take some time. That's why it's better to start now than to keep talking about how doing this or that now will not yield immediate results next year. That sort of thinking only works for turbo capitalists and housing bubbles. The recognition of blacks in the USA for example also took a long time, if they had gone and kept your attitude, they could still be slaves now. It's absolutely true that you cannot change some attitudes over night but just accepting that never helped anyone. I thought the great strength of America is that it takes issues and relentlessly works towards improvement, no?
[Cynic_mode]Only if the improvement makes more money than the current situation. [/Cynic_mode]
Husar is correct in that social stigmas can change. But it takes time and more importantly, it takes a dialogue in order for progress to be made. This is why I was mad yesterday about the thread and much of the public dialogue focusing on guns instead of the healthcare issue. If people are not even talking about this aspect of it, no progress will be made. And in fact that is what has happened at least since Columbine, everyone talks about guns and we have had no social progress on mental illness, so the mentally ill continue to attack after years of non treatment.
Originally Posted by Husar:
The social stigma is much lower today than it was in 1950 for example, these changes obviously do take some time. That's why it's better to start now than to keep talking about how doing this or that now will not yield immediate results next year. That sort of thinking only works for turbo capitalists and housing bubbles. The recognition of blacks in the USA for example also took a long time, if they had gone and kept your attitude, they could still be slaves now. It's absolutely true that you cannot change some attitudes over night but just accepting that never helped anyone. I thought the great strength of America is that it takes issues and relentlessly works towards improvement, no?
And what exactly do you actually think that can be done about some people being outcasts. People shouldn't think that tragedies like this can be prevented.The social stigma is much lower today than it was in 1950 for example, these changes obviously do take some time. That's why it's better to start now than to keep talking about how doing this or that now will not yield immediate results next year. That sort of thinking only works for turbo capitalists and housing bubbles. The recognition of blacks in the USA for example also took a long time, if they had gone and kept your attitude, they could still be slaves now. It's absolutely true that you cannot change some attitudes over night but just accepting that never helped anyone. I thought the great strength of America is that it takes issues and relentlessly works towards improvement, no?
If we allowed our children to legally carry guns things like this would not happen.
Gun control works really well in Chicago. If we could model the entire nation as we do Chicago, the minority underclass should wipe itself out in 3-7 years, using all those guns they are not legally allowed to possess. This would make whitey happy, and we could finally have White Flight Part 2: The Reclamation go into effect
Gun control works really well in Chicago. If we could model the entire nation as we do Chicago, the minority underclass should wipe itself out in 3-7 years, using all those guns they are not legally allowed to possess. This would make whitey happy, and we could finally have White Flight Part 2: The Reclamation go into effect
BUT AT LEAST THEM GAYS CAIN'T GET MARRIED!!! *charges rifle*
AND HERE I THOUGHT THE ONLY THING THAT COULD HARM KIDS IN SCHOOL WERE LIBERAL TEACHERS AND LACK OF PRAYER *charges assault rifle*
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump:
If we allowed our children to legally carry guns things like this would not happen.
Yes, absolutely, because they wouldn't be nervous or confused at all and statistics show that a country with more guns, like America, is a safer place.If we allowed our children to legally carry guns things like this would not happen.
Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump:
Gun control works really well in Chicago. If we could model the entire nation as we do Chicago, the minority underclass should wipe itself out in 3-7 years, using all those guns they are not legally allowed to possess. This would make whitey happy, and we could finally have White Flight Part 2: The Reclamation go into effect
Absolutely correct again because a single city with gun control surrounded by a whole country with hardly any gun control and gun fares, gun shops and tons of illegal weapons floating around is really the best example of why gun control on a nation-wide level would never work. Gun control works really well in Chicago. If we could model the entire nation as we do Chicago, the minority underclass should wipe itself out in 3-7 years, using all those guns they are not legally allowed to possess. This would make whitey happy, and we could finally have White Flight Part 2: The Reclamation go into effect
I didn't want to enter the gun debate as America will never change anything about that and happily pay the price of more gun deaths, which is okay with me as long as you don't expect me to be shocked, but please spare me with completely nonsensical "examples".
If you want to make a valid comparison, take a country that actually has effective gun control, has had it for more than ten years and isn't flooded with guns due to the lax policies all around and from the past, i.e. an area that simply has effective gun control and not the lame US regional version.
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