Newtown School Shootings

[Lemur]

What's the better situation really, some control or none at all?

According to the 2A absolutists, none at all. That's pretty obvious.

Again, I think proposals for change would be best if they came from the bastions of 2A absolutism, such as the NRA. Anybody who suggests we need any regulation at all is going to be crucified if they aren't a "conservative" Republican.

Obama? Man, forget about it. After four years of hysterical squealing about how he's gonna be a gun-grabber? After all of the right-wing reality-free froth and paranoia about how the OBUMMER is going to become a dictator? Due to the unhinged nature of the wingnuts, he has zero room to maneuver.

So if 2A absolutists such as Panzer want to propose something, anything more realistic than turning our schools into armed camps, let's hear it. 'Cause the left and center are hamstrung on this issue. So let's hear what the right has to say. If anything.

[Fragony]

I have absolutely nothing meaningfull to say really, I have no idea how to fix things like this

[Lemur]

Just checked the NRA's blog. They got nothing. Their news feed? Nothing. Their Facebook page? They took it down. In fact, their only acknowledgement seems to be this one twitter statement: "Until the facts are thoroughly known, NRA will not have any comment." What an unbelievable bunch of tools.

On the bright side, seems there are a few "conservative" Republicans willing to at least have a conversation. We'll see if they get body-slammed by their own right-wing media complex or not.

-edit-

Sorry, my bad, the politician asking for a conversation about gun regulation is a Dem. My mistake. He will now be flogged in public as the SOCIALIST GUN GRABBER he clearly is.

[Fragony]

Just checked the NRA's blog. They got nothing. Their news feed? Nothing. Their Facebook page? They took it down. In fact, their only acknowledgement seems to be this one twitter statement: "Until the facts are thoroughly known, NRA will not have any comment." What an unbelievable bunch of tools.

On the bright side, seems there are a few "conservative" Republicans willing to at least have a conversation. We'll see if they get body-slammed by their own right-wing media complex or not.

Sorry but why should they have the obligation to response, why volunteer for the association.

[Lemur]

Sorry but why should they have the obligation to response, why volunteer for the association.

Oh, I don't know, it's just this thing I have, where I expect the most powerful group advocating unrestricted 2A for everyone might want to show leadership in a crisis.

Silly, I know.

[Fragony]

Oh, I don't know, it's just this thing I have, where I expect the most powerful group advocating unrestricted 2A for everyone might want to show leadership in a crisis.

Silly, I know.

I don't know what 2a means but if it means armed guards at schools it's stupid. Just an extra gun for who planned ahead.

[Lemur]

2A = shorthand for Second Amendment.

[PanzerJaeger]

So if 2A absolutists such as Panzer want to propose something, anything more realistic than turning our schools into armed camps, let's hear it. 'Cause the left and center are hamstrung on this issue. So let's hear what the right has to say. If anything.

The idea that this tragedy requires legislative action is a fallacy in itself. While the nation has seen more mass shootings lately (ie: three) than usual, their extreme rarity should preclude any broad policy shift. Not every tragic loss of life requires the federal government to wrap society in another layer of bubble wrap. As mentioned above, if our national focus is to directed towards decreasing preventable deaths by curtailing freedoms currently enjoyed, a return to prohibition and any number of other issues should take priority. Taking aim (no pun intended) at gun ownership out of an emotional reaction to a headline grabbing, yet isolated incident is not logical.

[Papewaio]

I agree statistically speaking it used to be a lot more dangerous with guns. An American during the War of Independence was ten times more likely to die of a gunshot wound then a citizen of today.

In 1776 it is estimated that there was 1/100th of the population of the modern US.
8000 died on the battlefield over an eight year period.

In comparison whilst the 11,000 who died of homicides this year from guns seems a lot larger. Once you adjust for population inflation it comes down to 100 per year. Which is a mere 800 over an eight year period or just ten percent.

So the human cost for freedom is cheaper then ever. IMDHO that is the very definition of progress.

[Fragony]

I agree statistically speaking it used to be a lot more dangerous with guns. An American during the War of Independence was ten times more likely to die of a gunshot wound then a citizen of today.

No shit Sherlock

I agree with Panzer by the way, shootings like this hit hard but are very rare.

[Ironside]

No shit Sherlock

I agree with Panzer by the way, shootings like this hit hard but are very rare.

It's more common in the US than the rest of the western world combined.

[Fragony]

It's more common in the US than the rest of the western world combined.

US is a big country. I think the US and Europe taken as a whole are pretty much even. Not a statistically significant difference at least. We have had this in Norway, Finland, Germany, Netherlands, I wouldn't say it is dramatically more common in the US. A loner gone nuts, Columbine, Tech whatwasit, the Joker, and this one.

[Idaho]

US is a big country. I think the US and Europe taken as a whole are pretty much even. Not a statistically significant difference at least. We have had this in Norway, Finland, Germany, Netherlands, I wouldn't say it is dramatically more common in the US. A loner gone nuts, Columbine, Tech whatwasit, the Joker, and this one.

Europe has over 700 million people. The US is a lot less than that.

If Americans really want the right to have loads of really dangerous weapons, and are happy with the side-effects, then fine.

[rory_20_uk]

It's more common in the US than the rest of the western world combined.

WE need incidence, not prevalence.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

While the nation has seen more mass shootings lately (ie: three) than usual, their extreme rarity should preclude any broad policy shift.

Three mass shootings within 12 months is by no measure 'an extreme rarity'.

[Hooahguy]

Three mass shootings within 12 months is by no measure 'an extreme rarity'.

Far more homicides with guns than there are mass shootings. Supposedly, Chicago is more dangerous than Afghanistan. Over 200 deaths in 6 months last I heard. Yet nobody seems to really care.

Also Catiline, have you ever fired a gun before?

[Catiline]

Also Catiline, have you ever fired a gun before?

Yes thanks. Not sure what that's got to do with anything, unless I'm supposed to be overcome by feeling of empowering freedom and masculine liberty when I do it. What I actually come away with is the idea that a) its fun b) it's difficult to hit what you want, and c) that the things should stay locked up at the gun club where they belong because they're bloody dangerous.

[Hooahguy]

Yes thanks. Not sure what that's got to do with anything, unless I'm supposed to be overcome by feeling of empowering freedom and masculine liberty when I do it. What I actually come away with is the idea that a) its fun b) it's difficult to hit what you want, and c) that the things should stay locked up at the gun club where they belong because they're bloody dangerous.

I was just wondering. The only people I know in the outside world who are as rabidly anti-gun as you are have never fired one before. The ones who were as extremely anti-gun usually end up moderating their views afterwards to a more balanced opinion.

[Catiline]

I'm not anti gun per se. I've got no issues with public servants, be they military or police or the like havng them. I've got no issues with hunting weapons, provided they're used with respect and kept safely. I simply think that weapons whose sole intention is to kill another human have no place in civilian society. Keep them at the gun club if you must have them.

[Husar]

I was just wondering. The only people I know in the outside world who are as rabidly anti-gun as you are have never fired one before. The ones who were as extremely anti-gun usually end up moderating their views afterwards to a more balanced opinion.

You might be surprised. In fact I wish I had a gun because I'm awesome and all that and would use it only to do good. But then again I realize that I also have faults and it would be unfair to give one to me because I think I'm good but not to other people who think the same of themselves. As such I think it's better if we all don't have one. And yes, that's partly because I can easily see how I would casually overestimate my own prowess in handling a gun. Then again I have no education on how to handle one.

It's also nice to see that @Fragony has adopted my view after arguing against it.

As for the charging thing, it could work in the sense that fewer people may die if it's not happening on an open field, but it would require drilling stoicism into the children and turning them into some kind of mindless hive-mentality zombieforce. Of course that may help them later in their job in a sweatshop as well.