If you're going to look at the total murder rate for the US there's no grounds for going after rifles of any kind - which make up a fraction (~3%) of total firearm homicides.

Originally Posted by
rory_20_uk
So... compare the killings in Europe with gangs included to those in the USA without...
Given how restricted guns are in many European countries this will likely make the difference even greater.

Or, you know, your comparison is invalid. Because the gangs in Europe simply do not compare to the gangs in North America - namely American and especially Mexico - that have sprouted up as a result of the drug war.
The total number of gang homicides reported by respondents in the NYGS sample averaged nearly 2,000 annually from 2006 to 2010. During the same time period, the FBI estimated, on average, more than 16,000 homicides across the US.
From your site:
*Because of the many issues surrounding the maintenance and collection of gang-crime data, caution is urged when interpreting the results presented below. For more information regarding this issue, see:
Congratulations! You've shot down to 3.5 times that of the UK - result!!!
No, we've had a drastic drop in murders while having a drastic increase in guns.
I think all you Europeans need to read that again.
Note CR's self-conflicting mish-mash of reasoning, beginning with how any regulation is impractical, but always coming back to how any regulation is a violation of fundamental rights and an imposition of the Nanny State. (So why bother to argue the practicality in the first place, if we're proceeding from a priori truths?)
Really? 
That's your response? I respond point-by-point and your critique is that I had two arguments to support my position, neither of which, apparently, you could find fault with?
From CR's stated perspective, there is no regulation of firearms in the U.S.A. that can ever be legitimate. Or of there is, he's avoiding mentioning it. How is that not "absolutist"? Or at least a very good imitation of absolutism?
Wrong. But don't let me get in the way of you misstating your opponent's position. Again.
and things such as the gun show loophole (which they fight strenuously to maintain) put a hole below the waterline in their credibility.
Oh, you mean how the anti-gun folks would like to require a background check for all gun sales between individuals, effectively eliminating gun sales between private parties? Yeah, that's stupid and uselessly restrictive as well.
It's illegal for ATF to release any statistical information about makes, models, or types of guns used in crimes. No specifics, mind you, just statistics, and it's been illegal since 2003. Thanks, guys.
Blame the sue-happy anti-gun nuts who would use that info to sue any gun companies if one model showed up more often than another.
It's interesting, Lemur. You made all those claims about the need for more legislation and regulation. But you haven't responded to any critiques and now you're shifting into vaguely blaming the NRA for various things. It's all ad hominem attacks. You've got nothing.
EDIT: In fact, let's take a quick look at that opinion article from the NYT:
It’s just common sense that we need a radical reduction in the number and kind of guns for sale.
So he's got no backing for this statement in terms of statistics, just a gut feeling. And then again states without evidence that guns have to be tightly regulated, whilst complaining:
On the contrary, they often plausibly present themselves as tough-minded empiricists, opposing facts to liberal emoting.
Gee, I wonder why that is. Why that could possibly be. How it could be that the anti-gun liberals, who always are trying to emotionally exploit these tragedies, could possibly be cast as people pushing laws based on fear and emotions, while the pro-gun people responding with facts and statistics are the empiricists. In short he says without any backing guns have to be banned, complains that pro-gun folks have all the evidence on their side, and then blames the NRA.

that's a pathetic argument.
Also, to expand on ACIN's point; why does Norway get praised for not having a knee jerk reaction to their terrorist madman, but if the US does the same thing, it's because we're all stupid violent idiots?
CR
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