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Thread: Can't we just drop a nuke on the Vatican

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  1. #1
    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Flatout Minigame Champion Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can't we just drop a nuke on the Vatican

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    In Italy? Yes, they do. In fact, the very existence of the Vatican is the concession of that fact by Mussolini -- and the Vatican continues to have an active hand in Italian politics to this day.
    That isn't true, the Pope has the same impact he'd have on any catholic in the world...
    The Lateran Pacts finally settled the Roman Question, defining the relation between Italy and the Pope, who 'til then didn't recognize Italy and pretty much waited and looked for any foreign help to re-establish the papal state.
    Later our constitution affirmed how laïcité is the supreme principle of the state, abolishing catholicism as the state religion...
    All in all, it was a tactful way to deal with it, the Vatican wasn't "created" out of the blue, but was a far more complex historical reality...

    That imo, the church has way too many benefits it's another matter, but the only political influence it might have is with money or if a certain politician would be such a devout fanatic...
    But as I said, the latter case is non-existant, as first and foremost, what matter to italian politicians is money and maintaining their position :P

  2. #2

    Default Re: Can't we just drop a nuke on the Vatican

    Quote Originally Posted by Arjos View Post
    That isn't true, the Pope has the same impact he'd have on any catholic in the world...
    Hmm, somehow I don't quite buy the idea that the word of the Pope confers quite the same authority to every Catholic, from Ireland, Spain Italy, to France, the USA and the Netherlands. Time and place matter. For example in the Netherlands and the USA Catholics have been going pretty much their own way sometimes directly contravening official Papal doctrine. (From positions on sex and marriage to the use of vulgar tongue during mass.)

    The Lateran Pacts finally settled the Roman Question, defining the relation between Italy and the Pope, who 'til then didn't recognize Italy and pretty much waited and looked for any foreign help to re-establish the papal state.
    Later our constitution affirmed how laïcité is the supreme principle of the state, abolishing catholicism as the state religion...
    All in all, it was a tactful way to deal with it, the Vatican wasn't "created" out of the blue, but was a far more complex historical reality...
    Well yes but Mussolini did not settle for the Vatican out of the kindness of his good heart. It was a cold political reality: he needed legitimacy and the power that could give it to him was the Church. So did Franco by the way, hence his alliance with the Church. In Ireland, again the clergy conferred significant authority politicians did not dare to doubt.

    France, now that would be the exception. I hardly need point out how France differs from nearly every other country in its staunch ideal of laïcité, and it took them quite a bit of effort to get there.
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  3. #3
    COYATOYPIKC Senior Member Flatout Minigame Champion Arjos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Can't we just drop a nuke on the Vatican

    Quote Originally Posted by Tellos Athenaios View Post
    Well yes but Mussolini did not settle for the Vatican out of the kindness of his good heart. It was a cold political reality: he needed legitimacy and the power that could give it to him was the Church.
    I had in mind the whole process, with the later incorporation with the constitution, but your point serves perfectly: unless there's political gain in siding with the church, politicians just don't do it...
    The current catholic party gets at most 6-11% of the electorate, so it's really about forming a coalition if you happen to be desperate for those votes...

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