Irish, and other minority languages

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

So I was reading up about the Irish language recently, and at first I thought it was rather sad that the language is disappearing from Ireland. However, on second thought, does anyone even care? Its an awful waste of time, from my perspective at least, because Irish seems to be pretty doomed and the dominance of English on the island is secure. Why do people get so worked up about these small languages? Is it nationalism or political correctness or multiculturalism that motivates people to "preserve" minority languages such as Irish, Occitan, Breton, Scots, Basque*, Catalan*, Welsh, etc.? And finally, is it worth all the effort?

*not sure if these really fit with the others as they seem to be doing fine on their own

Funny how the vast majority of those languages are either Brythonic or Gailic (Catalan is not a minority language).

A question for you - how do you propose to read Irish poetry without knowing any Irish?

[Populus Romanus]

Funny how the vast majority of those languages are either Brythonic or Gailic (Catalan is not a minority language).

A question for you - how do you propose to read Irish poetry without knowing any Irish?

I wouldn't be able to. But that wouldn't bother me, as much Irish poetry and other literature is already translated or being translated into English. If you can get a poem in Irish or in English, and everybody speaks English, why bother keeping the Irish version around? No reason. Eventually, after the last Irish speaker dies, no new Irish poetry will be created, anyways.

[gaelic cowboy]

I wouldn't be able to. But that wouldn't bother me, as much Irish poetry and other literature is already translated or being translated into English. If you can get a poem in Irish or in English, and everybody speaks English, why bother keeping the Irish version around? No reason. Eventually, after the last Irish speaker dies, no new Irish poetry will be created, anyways.

The reason is because poetry is meant to be read aloud the sounds of the words themselves are very important.

It would probably take hundreds years for the last irish speaker to die off, and even then the poetry will still hark back to something older.

it will be here for a whileen seeing as there doing the weather in irish

[jirisys]

I have wanted to learn Gaeilge eta Euskara for quite some time now. i have a thing for minority languages.

Euskara is not doing that well, not many basques speak it, although it's doing better than Gaeilge.

Also, wouldn't that argument also make the teaching of latin moot?

~Jirisys ()

[Noncommunist]

Funny how the vast majority of those languages are either Brythonic or Gailic (Catalan is not a minority language).

A question for you - how do you propose to read Irish poetry without knowing any Irish?

Endangered languages in western Europe are probably better known than those in other lands?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I wouldn't be able to. But that wouldn't bother me, as much Irish poetry and other literature is already translated or being translated into English. If you can get a poem in Irish or in English, and everybody speaks English, why bother keeping the Irish version around? No reason. Eventually, after the last Irish speaker dies, no new Irish poetry will be created, anyways.

You're right - you wouldn't be able to - you just be able to read the translation.

Remember when I quoted some Latin without translation and we got three separate English versions, which meant three different things?

The translation is not the same as the original - if you could read the original you'd realise how wretched the translation was and how it doesn't really convey the meaning very well at all. This goes for all translations - it is why we learn other languages.

If you can only read a translation you are dependent on someone else's understanding of the original, when no one can understand the original it cannot be re-translated - and then it is lost.

Endangered languages in western Europe are probably better known than those in other lands?

There are dialects of German that are dying out, Slavic and Finnish tongues that are near-extinct. It's interesting how the American's idea of "dying" languages is largely confined to the subject peoples who were under the English boot.

It says something about P.R. view of history.

[gaelic cowboy]

There are dialects of German that are dying out, Slavic and Finnish tongues that are near-extinct. It's interesting how the American's idea of "dying" languages is largely confined to the subject peoples who were under the English boot.

It says something about P.R. view of history.

I wouldn't consider the Irish language to be in danger of linguistic extinction there is easily a million people can speak Irish globally.


there is even plenty yanks that can speak it

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I find it interesting that a lot of the best English teachers I had were either Scot or Irish.

Maybe being bilingual improves their understanding of both languages.

That's a generally accepted truth - the more languages you speak the better.

I wouldn't consider the Irish language to be in danger of linguistic extinction there is easily a million people can speak Irish globally.

Neither would I - Welsh has not been in any danger for at least 20 years either.

[Populus Romanus]

I wouldn't consider the Irish language to be in danger of linguistic extinction there is easily a million people can speak Irish globally.

I thought that the number of first language speakers and fluent speakers was declining. I wouldn't really consider a language that is only known, not spoken or used by the general population for any purpose other than the arts, to be healthy or safe at all. But I was being a bit sensationalist when I mentioned Irish going extinct.

There are dialects of German that are dying out, Slavic and Finnish tongues that are near-extinct. It's interesting how the American's idea of "dying" languages is largely confined to the subject peoples who were under the English boot.

It says something about P.R. view of history.

I don't cackle with glee at the thought of languages disappearing from common use. Rather it is a sad, inevitable reality. May as well embrace it now and get over with it.

But this isn't just about dying languages, either. Its about minority languages. I just listed off the ones that were the first to come to my mind, which may or may not have been influenced by the fact that I'm American. In fact, I can't believe I forgot Eastern Europe in the OP, because that is where the issue of minority languages is probably most relevant. Need I mention Yugoslavia?

[gaelic cowboy]

I thought that the number of first language speakers and fluent speakers was declining. I wouldn't really consider a language that is only known, not spoken or used by the general population for any purpose other than the arts, to be healthy or safe at all. But I was being a bit sensationalist when I mentioned Irish going extinct.I don't cackle with glee at the thought of languages disappearing from common use. Rather it is a sad, inevitable reality. May as well embrace it now and get over with it.

native speakers means people from the gaeltacht areas which are specific places in ireland but there is way more speak it than that.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I thought that the number of first language speakers and fluent speakers was declining. I wouldn't really consider a language that is only known, not spoken or used by the general population for any purpose other than the arts, to be healthy or safe at all. But I was being a bit sensationalist when I mentioned Irish going extinct.

That's a simplistic view of language - First-language is meaningful if you don't have a second language. As some here know, I lived with a crazy Welsh girl a few years ago... she was completely nuts (but very sweet) and we used to fight a lot. Despite her first language being Welsh and English being her Second she only swore at me in Welsh what she was really angry. I'd regularly find her reading not only English novels, but French and German ones as well.

Granted, this is an extreme example - but the point still stands. The cowboy just wrote you a post in Irish Gaelic and I doubt he need a dictionary to do it. If there are a million native Irish speakers and many more speak the language day-to-day in one capacity or another it's very much alive.

I don't cackle with glee at the thought of languages disappearing from common use. Rather it is a sad, inevitable reality. May as well embrace it now and get over with it.

Well - once upon a time the modern vernaculars were "minority" languages and Latin was the majority language - a state which continued into the early medieval period. There's evidence that the majority of the clergy and many of the aristocracy were bi-lingual, and the bias wasn't always towards the "modern" language.

You also don't understand the crucial point - languages can be saved, with a bit of effort. Even Latin is gradually undergoing something of a revival (contrary to popular belief the language never "died" it has been continuously spoken for the last 1500 years).

But this isn't just about dying languages, either. Its about minority languages. I just listed off the ones that were the first to come to my mind, which may or may not have been influenced by the fact that I'm American. In fact, I can't believe I forgot Eastern Europe in the OP, because that is where the issue of minority languages is probably most relevant. Need I mention Yugoslavia?

Actually - the issue is most acute in places like the Pacific Islands, Central Africa and Australasia.

[Papewaio]

I find it interesting that a lot of the best English teachers I had were either Scot or Irish.

Maybe being bilingual improves their understanding of both languages.