Polybian Principes VS Cohors Reformata Cost

[Velho]

Principes Cost 1185 and upkeep is 296 They have 82 Soldiers on large , Cohors Reformata Cost 1790 and have upkeep of 448, And have 102 Soldiers on large, and have 2 less armour than principes. But have testudo and +1 Morale compared to Principes

So Why they are much more expensive despite being worse, On my head the unit size explains some of the cost but still its 600 more

Opinions about that?

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Cost of units in EB is based on historical factors as well as unit balance. Often, historically poor factions have units that are both good and cheap, and historically rich factions have units that are less good and more expensive.

For the Roman legionaries, Cohors Reformata are not expensive. It's the earlier Principes that are cheap.

Marian legionaries had their equipment bought and paid for by the state. Polybian and Camillan Principes provided their own equipment. That alone is the historical reason for Marian units costing more. Never mind the additional historical reason of the Marian units getting higher pay than their predecessors, to buy their loyalty in an increasingly unstable Roman Republic plagued by civil war between power-hungry generals.

Getting the Marian reforms is not entirely a good thing for Rome. By far the main advantage is that the legionaries can be recruited across a much wider area, not just Italy as under the earlier reforms, but the troops are more expensive and hardly any better than their Polybian predecessors. The Marian reforms are not recommended until the Republic is both large in area and rich in wealth (e.g. after Carthage, Lusotann, Epiros, Macedon and Koinon Hellenon have all been crushed) so money is not a serious problem anymore.

See this site for more info on the units in EB: http://europabarbarorum.heimstatt.net/

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

it's not only about the equipment, there's also the training and physical quality of them men.

Principes are your reasonably well-to-do (upper middle class, by modern standards) small holders. They'll have the time and money to provide their own (often custom) equipment and to train themselves sufficiently, when it's their slaves that did most of the farm work.

Whereas, the Marian troops are practically anybody available and somewhat willing pressed into service as essentially mercenaries to their sponsor. These often are your urban poor or disenfranchised citizens that had lost their land and is in poverty (it's hard to find a job when it's cheaper to have slaves). These are not the healthiest stock of people for soldiering, the Romans know it, but by that time the number of suitable small holders have dwindled as their lands gave way to sprawling plantations full of slaves. Simply put, the Romans needed the numbers, and they now need to dig into their pockets for it.

Marian troops are Rome's zerglings, essentially. It's just that the Principes are cheaper because they are richer and fitter as individuals, like Titus has said.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Good points. So basically:

Principes = pillars of the community, the finest of upstanding non-aristocratic Roman citizens.

Cohors Reformata = the mob - or scum of the earth (as the Duke of Wellington called his English Redcoats).

The Cohors Reformata benefitted from better (more organised) training, but the human quality of the men recruited was worse than the Principes. Men underfed as young children (from poverty-stricken families) tend to grow up as slightly smaller and weaker adults than their well-fed, richer cousins.

[Marcus Darkstar]

I always wondered though about the lesser armor of -2 compared to the Reformata. I mean dont the Princeps and Cohorts Reformata basically have the same type of armor and gear? (chainmail shirts, gualic helmets and hispania swords) But the Reformata was just more standardized and paid by the state.

In reading the unit descriptions the only real difference i can see is a piece of bronze greaves on the leading leg of the Princeps...

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

It's exactly the greave. The thueros (Romaioi call it scutum) does not cover the entire body with the same amount of durability as the hellenic aspis. That greave on the lead leg makes a lot of difference.