Man, I wish I was a baby boomer

[Strike For The South]

I don't know which of these I would get more enjoyment out of

Dodging the draft and spitting on the vets during the Vietnam era

OR

Shaking the vets hand and sending him to some hellhole only to have him return with no legs. I will admit the ability to lie like that is truly herculean, I would be impressed if I wasn't so enraged.

I would also like to defund social security, suck the welfare state dry, put everything on credit card, eschew any sense of community, and then blame "the kids" for the state we are in.

And while I have your ear, Is there any good reason we're in Iraq? Like an actual reason to send people to die? Or is that to much to ask? Probably to much to ask.

[HoreTore]

Nothing was better before.

The elderly only say so because mental abilities wane with old age.

Life was worse 30 years ago, and life will be even better in 20 years.

The only things that will change, is that in 30 years you will be the one denouncing society and recounted polished tales of our glorious present.

EDIT: Even though I know the ear of Texas' glory boy will ignore my words, I will continue:

The old constantly whine about how "kids these days should listen to their advice", as they believe kids today do not listen. On the contrary, kids today do listen. They have heard the words of the old and decided that they do not want to live the lives of these old, racist ignorants. They know the world of the past, and have decided they do not want it, and will try to create a new a better one.

Like young people have done since the dawn of time.

[HoreTore]

The "It was always bad" argument is a cop-out.

The baby boomers presided over a special era in Human History. They squandered it. Our generation may do the same, but it would only be because of the wonderful example set by our elders.

Not sure which post you're referring to, but my argument was "it's getting better and better, thus the past was worse"...

Optimistic socialism, if you want.

[HoreTore]

I was being soap-boxy and responding to the issue raised (i.e. Baby Boomers suck) rather than any specific post. If it makes you feel any better, I generally agree with you. Generally.

Makes me feel any better? You just made my weekend, man!

[Montmorency]

The notion that things will just "get better" of their own accord betrays such a dangerous sort of complacency as to present the single largest imaginable threat to us all.

The species experiencing some very serious challenges to its present way of life, and they are only being exacerbated with time. Make no mistake: if they are not resolved, modern civilization will crumble away like so much Cream of Tartar.

The only hope is that we tend to find solutions before it becomes too late, pressed by necessity. To rely on this as a saving grace - just don't be shocked by the magnitude of the sorrows that might tumble onto your head.

[Montmorency]

Note that I say "to our way of life", not necessarily our very survival.

The possibility that we'll somehow be wiped out to a one is not anything to concern ourselves over. That we might find ourselves reduced to localized subsistence agriculture...

[HoreTore]

People don't give the planet enough credit. Long after we've destroyed ourselves, and perhaps even made the planet temporarily uninhabitable for land-based life, things will even back out and new critters will rise to the top. That's not meant to make anyone feel better about the the fact that our entire species is imploding, but I'm sure the Alligators are happy. They'll be laughing in a few million years about that whole brief "Human" thing that happened back in the day.

Imploding?

Bah. The obstacles to our current problems will die of natural causes in a few years.

We won't be doomed until someone discovers a potion of eternal life.

[Greyblades]

It is kinda depressing how racist, bigoted, intolerant, and all out hateful that alot of the current ruling generation is.

That the only competent political party over here mainlt consists of these sorts of people is even more depressing.

Still it could be worse, the US republicans could be in charge.

[HoreTore]

We're imploding more than you might care to think.

None of this can be conclusively proven, but think on some of this stuff:

1.) Cancer Rates and Instances of Genetic Disease are higher than ever. Is it a stretch to say this might have something to do with the wide-spread industrialization of our food sources? Of the hundreds of high-yield nuclear bombs that have been exploded in the last sixty years? Of wide-spread human tampering in things we barely understand, such as viruses, DNA, etc.?

2.) The whole planet can still go up in smoke at the push of a button. Cold War's over, but the Nukes are still there.

3.) Sometimes the Earth just says Screw You and decides to change things up. Ice Ages and all that. Who's to say we'll be able to exist in the next phase? Space also does this sort of thing, Asteroids and whatnot.

Human existence has been so brief, and our overconfidence in our abilities so absolute, that we really have no idea at all what we're doing to our planet, and our species. We just think we do. In reality, the sample sizes are too small. The sample sizes needed to know these things are beyond comprehension. The only thing we can be certain of is that humanity has a pattern of reckless disregard for long-term consequences in favor of short-term solutions. Unless we find a way to colonize other planets, that will probably be our undoing.

But mostly, Baby Boomers suck.

#3 can of course happen at any time. They don't happen very often though, and it's not that long since the last time it happen. But hey, impossible to know.

#2 is of course true. I'd say the odds are extremely low, but that's a subjective opinion, ie. a worthless opinion.

Now as for #1.... The reason we have more cancer is actually not because we have more cancer. Rather, we have cured so many of the diseases people used to die from, so cancer is now one of few killers left. If people in the 1500's had lived to be 90 and had cured as many diseases as we have, they would've died from cancer too. Cancer takes a long time to finally kill you off, and weakens you more and more until you die. People in the past died of other diseases the cancer allowed, thus not noticing that the cancer was the actual underlying cause of their death.


Yes, can I have an extra-large fries with that Big Mac, please?

[HoreTore]

It is kinda depressing how racist, bigoted, intolerant, and all out hateful that alot of the current ruling generation is.

Think of the bright side, in 50 years some kid on a gaming forum will lament of how racist, bigoted, intolerant, and all out hateful you are

And then the world will go on....

[Greyblades]

Eh, 2/4; I hate each and everyone of mankind in equal measure so I can't count as racist or bigoted.

[Kadagar_AV]

Things dont always get better.

How many more years do you think I can be known as Kadagar_AV here, without a real ID?

[Montmorency]

Cancer Rates and Instances of Genetic Disease are higher than ever

Mmm, do you have any research or essays on hand that would indicate that this is anything other than a natural outcome of increased population size and longevity, to say nothing of modern diagnostics and book-keeping?

As for sample size, well, how many millions is enough? Are you of The Race, or something? Please, have some ginger...

Here are some solids to consider:

1. Antibiotics are going kaput, even as the targets gain in strength and prevalence.
2. Freshwater is growing scarcer, and what reserves exist are positioned across national boundaries in a very precarious way, especially in the Third World.
3. Nationalism is resurgent in East Asia and Europe.
4. Climate change looks set to rewrite the ecological atlas, in the favor of some, to the detriment of many - never mind the worsening threat of invasive species.
5. Climate change looks set to put a substantial chunk of rising Third World economies underwater or to dust. Perhaps we'll witness how a nation reacts to falling into poverty from middle-income range.

Off the top of my head...

[HoreTore]

How many Armegeddons have humanity survived now? Let's see...

- The Sea Peoples(bronze age migrations)
- Fall of the Roman Empire
- The Mongols invading
- The Black Death
- Chinese warlordism

That's off the top of my head, and very european-centered.

We'll live through the points noted by previous posters just fine. Go join a doomsday cult or something if you can't be optimistic about the world today. Today, we have unparalleled cooperation between peoples and globalization, we've cured a zillion diseases, we are well fed and healthy, starvation is an absurdity and falling victim to violence of any kind is rarer than it has ever been.

AND YOU LOT STILL ONLY SEE NEGATIVES!?!?!??!?!

Go to your doctor, ask for some prozac.

[Montmorency]

The only argument I see is, ' The good times will last because the good times are here': how myopic.

How many Armegeddons have humanity survived now? Let's see...

You would count grains of sand before boulders?

we are well fed and healthy, starvation is an absurdity and falling victim to violence of any kind is rarer than it has ever been.

Eurocentric indeed.

we have unparalleled cooperation between peoples and globalization

It's just frightening how quickly cooperation can dissolve when the pinch is on. As for globalization, it is as nothing - the very threats we face are ones that would break the logistics of the global economy.

Go join a doomsday cult or something if you can't be optimistic about the world today.

But see, that's my point - to acknowledge that problems exist is the first step to efficiently and safely doing away with them. Reckless complacency only undermines the basis for optimism. There's a reason why pessimists live longer...

[HoreTore]

The only argument I see is, ' The good times will last because the good times are here': how myopic.

Bah.

What I'm saying is that we've seen far worse stuff before.

What was it the black plague killed again? Two thirds? And you scream about the end because water supplies lies on the borders between nations? What? Pray tell, how much antibiotics did we have when we survived the plague, eh? Altered living patterns due to climate change? How many huge cities did the Roman Empire have? Every single one depopulated during the dark ages, with people going back to the fields. That's a change, dear friend. One we survived.

We'll do it again.

We just need to die first, so that our offspring, who will be both smarter and wiser, will be able to come up with the solution, free from distraction from our limited and unimaginative minds.


Jesus won't come again. There won't be an armageddon. The world will continue in spite of all the old grumpy men who claim the end is nigh. As it always has been, and always will be. These things never change.

[Montmorency]

What I'm saying is that we've seen far worse stuff before.

Sand before boulders. The fall would of course be far harder at this stage.

What was it the black plague killed again? Two thirds? And you scream about the end because water supplies lies on the borders between nations? What? Pray tell, how much antibiotics did we have when we survived the plague, eh? Altered living patterns due to climate change? How many huge cities did the Roman Empire have? Every single one depopulated during the dark ages, with people going back to the fields. That's a change, dear friend. One we survived.

We'll do it again.

We just need to die first, so that our offspring, who will be both smarter and wiser, will be able to come up with the solution, free from distraction from our limited and unimaginative minds.

Note that I say "to our way of life", not necessarily our very survival.

The possibility that we'll somehow be wiped out to a one is not anything to concern ourselves over. That we might find ourselves reduced to localized subsistence agriculture...

What do you think we are, a phoenix? Which is better: to fix the leak in the roof, or to go ahead with adding a new bedroom until the whole roof collapses inward - and then building up another house from scratch?

[Papewaio]

“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”

[Strike For The South]

“Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”

I grow weary of this quote

[Papewaio]

Well if you want to be original and not repeative then you have to change beyond bog standard generational stereotypes.

Until then I'm going to throw down two thousand year old quotes.

[Papewaio]

Adapt or Die.

Yet we still have the same standards with regards to generations and a silly young vs old dichotomy.

We should be using our genetic advantage mandated by menopause. Instead of whining how easy another generation had it, go out and look for solutions together.

Creating friction were there should be teamwork is why we probably won't make it.

[Kadagar_AV]

I'll play:

A) Humanity will be worse off than now in 10 years as we will then be addressing Mr. Schniedel working at the MOF-bank rather than, you know, someone who can say what they think.

B) Humanity will be worse off in 10 years because we have happily played around with genetic codes, and it will bite us HARD as mother nature will beat us with experience, and we are right now FLOWERING the planet.


HT seem to be some great cheerleader cheering any progressiveness on, without a thought in his mind that progression in certain fields historically really DIDN'T lead to something better.

[Kadagar_AV]

OOOOOOOoooooohhh...

As a stab right in HT's heart, humanity has been able to survive because of the dissimilarities between cultural groups.

The worldview you prefer, where we happily live together as one, would thus be a sure way to get us all wiped out. No?

[a completely inoffensive name]

The ability of the Baby Boomers to completely tailor the government to their exact needs and wishes is not so much a failure on the Baby Boomers part but a failure on the generations who came after that have not spoken.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Hah. They have spoken long and hard, but speaking no longer motivates policy (and really it always took a second fiddle to money anyway).

That's like dropping a gold fish in a shark tank and blaming it for getting eaten.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

The younger demographics do not vote in high proportions and they do not chant in the streets like the baby boomers of the 1960s to get their way. Personally, I think removing the draft was a bad idea.

[Fisherking]

The boomers didn’t tailor anything. They were just as lost as you. In the US there were only two boomer Presidents. Clinton and Bush Jr. The WWII generation took power early and relinquished it late. They ran the country for 40 years and you think boomers trashed it in 16?

You don’t read too much do you.

Boomers protested and spit on vets coming back from Vietnam but those vets were boomers too. They were carrying out the policies of the “Greatest Generation”. Now how do you dump on these guys. They were so great. Yet they saw the problems forming and did nothing. Just like current politicians they wouldn’t touch the issues.

And don’t we see the Xers doing so much better?

No we don’t.

Of course we still have over 130 of that WWII generation in Congress today, so they have not given up power even yet.

We may have a Xer for president but his VP comes from that WWII generation. Boomers were born between 45 and 65. They are not just everyone older than you.

But it must be the boomer fault, right? Why, because they are your parents?

I think the main problem is that you have not identified the problem.

[Kadagar_AV]

I think the main problem is that you have not identified the problem.

pwnd.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Congrats. You didn't even understand what I was saying.

The boomers didn’t tailor anything. They were just as lost as you. In the US there were only two boomer Presidents. Clinton and Bush Jr. The WWII generation took power early and relinquished it late. They ran the country for 40 years and you think boomers trashed it in 16?

The age of the politicians makes **** all difference. It's about the demographics. They are called the Baby Boomers because there were a lot of births and are the largest demographic by size thus they are catered to more often.

Boomers protested and spit on vets coming back from Vietnam but those vets were boomers too. They were carrying out the policies of the “Greatest Generation”. Now how do you dump on these guys. They were so great. Yet they saw the problems forming and did nothing. Just like current politicians they wouldn’t touch the issues.

I never said that the WW2 generation were saints. Why put words in my mouth?

And don’t we see the Xers doing so much better?

No we don’t.

Something I just pointed out in my original statement and the follow up.

But it must be the boomer fault, right? Why, because they are your parents?

I never said it was the Boomers fault. Thanks for the strawman.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Why should they? Occupy Wall St. really went over pretty well, didn't it? That was a half-assed uncoordinated protest-a-thon and the FBI still cracked it harder than a terrorist-filled walnut. And why would re-instating the draft be a bad idea? So we can send Soldiers into crappy wars who are even less prepared than the ones we have? Protest is futile.

Occupy Wall Street was a joke. As you said, it was half-assed.

Re-instating the draft would light the fire back in the youth who realize that if they sit around being apathetic idiots who just surf tumblr all day they could get their butts sent to war. As it stands right now, they are surrounded in an academic bubble in college or they are just unmindful of what they think isn't a concern for someone living the prime of his life.

The problem has been identified for a long time: People are greedy and short-sighted, and so require order and regulation to co-exist (let alone co-exist in a sustainable global environment). But people are also greedy and short-sighted, so... order and regulation are sure to be abused. The problem, in short, is people.

The Solution? Colonize other planets. Honestly, just.. start working on that. If we can spread accross space like the monkey-shaped viruses that we are, we'll ensure our survival as a species.

The problem is when you have large proportion of one demographic being greedy for their own interests and the other demographic groups don't bother showing up to play the game. It's harmonious when there is massive competition from all groups on who can get what. When there is little competition, stagnation and short term thinking prevails.

[a completely inoffensive name]

Yes. And the FBI still used the full exent of its powers to infiltrate it, discredit it, and so forth. Protest doesn't work on our government any more. They laugh while you're standing there with a picket sign. I'm not offering you a better solution, I'm just calling it like it is.

And somehow at the height of the Cold War, the Civil Rights movement succeeded despite the FBI having extensive files and plans for both MLK Jr. and Malcolm X.

Be careful what you wish for.

To be honest, the draft never really went away. All US males have to sign up for the selective service when they reach 18 years old. It's more about being honest with the youth than actually reinstating the draft.

But the game is rigged from the start. According to you, if the younger, more progressive generation steps up and votes we should see our problems end. Luckily for you, the youth vote has a very good outluck for the future so we'll see if you're right. I hope you are. In my opinion though, the story is as old as human history: If your people are content enough, and you're rich as hell, you have no incentive to be a good government until things hit critical mass. The fact that there aren't dozens of CEOs spending decades in prison for massive, criminally negligent and fraudelent behaviour over the financial crisis is proof enough that our government can't even contain the wealthy when they want to. The tail wags the dog.

When you are older and you have a mortgage, a car, insurance and a family to feed, it's hard to want to rock the boat when things go down the toilet financially. When the phrase "too big to fail" entered the public discourse, it shut down all possibilities of arresting financial misconduct because the first thing people want is to be able to pay for food and shelter and if it entails leaving the financial guys to their own devices again with no recourse that's what people will choose. The ending to Fight Club is a fantasy that seems awesome when you don't realize how much you depend on the suits at the top of those high buildings.