So God Made A Farmer

[Beskar]

Industrial Agriculture is obviously the way to go about it. I build a lot of Bio-Farms in Tropico 4, they are clearly the best option.

[HoreTore]

Industrial Agriculture is obviously the way to go about it. I build a lot of Bio-Farms in Tropico 4, they are clearly the best option.

Agriculture is already industrialized everywhere except Africa...

Every other business here has had to team up with others to create bigger businesses, I see no reason whatsoever why farmers shouldn't do the same. Further, they have already done so with food processing. If it works for making cheese, it works for milking the cow for that cheese.

[gaelic cowboy]

Agriculture is already industrialized everywhere except Africa...

Every other business here has had to team up with others to create bigger businesses, I see no reason whatsoever why farmers shouldn't do the same. Further, they have already done so with food processing. If it works for making cheese, it works for milking the cow for that cheese.

we can outsource food preparation but we cannot outsource the actual land.

[HoreTore]

we can outsource food preparation but we cannot outsource the actual land.

....And yet we haven't outsourced food processing either. Well, we haven't anyway, agricultural collectives(Tine, Nortura, Prior and "that last one") exist for all our agricultural products. Except frozen fish, of course, but fishing is weirdly enough always left out whenever farmers talk about agriculture and food... Perhaps because our fish runs a huge surplus, instead of needing subsidies?

Like I've said; I have absolutely zero objections to government assistance to businesses and industries. What I object to is the special status farmers want to have. They believe they are more important and more deserving of state attention than, say, a shoe producer. They are not, and as soon as they dump that superior attitude I'll happily stuff 'em full of other peoples gold.

[Papewaio]

Fishing is not farming. Fishing is hunting and at the moment a lot of fisheries are being over fished.

Really easy to make a massive profit if you use fishing factories, don't mind by catch and you don't actually care about future yields.

Fishing is the very example of why farming shouldn't become part of corporations that seek maximum profit, are essentially immune to prosecution, are too big to fail and who will look at food safety as a cost to business and crank out a formula to figure out if it is more cost effective to pay for damages rather then fix an issue.

I prefer a world where we had more shopkeepers, more small businesses and more transparency on our food supply chain.

[gaelic cowboy]

....And yet we haven't outsourced food processing either. Well, we haven't anyway, agricultural collectives(Tine, Nortura, Prior and "that last one") exist for all our agricultural products. Except frozen fish, of course, but fishing is weirdly enough always left out whenever farmers talk about agriculture and food... Perhaps because our fish runs a huge surplus, instead of needing subsidies?

Fishing is effectively the same as mining a free resource.

an example of an outsourced food processor/

Like I've said; I have absolutely zero objections to government assistance to businesses and industries. What I object to is the special status farmers want to have. They believe they are more important and more deserving of state attention than, say, a shoe producer. They are not, and as soon as they dump that superior attitude I'll happily stuff 'em full of other peoples gold.

Shoe production is a secondary industry while farming is a primary industry, the raw material leather is not very valuable unless given to the shoe maker.

[HoreTore]

Fishing is effectively the same as mining a free resource.

You're talking to a Norwegian here, remember fish farming is the basis of our fishing industry now, since you bastards fished our waters clean.

Shoe production is a secondary industry while farming is a primary industry, the raw material leather is not very valuable unless given to the shoe maker.

Indeed it is. And we know that a country who focuses on primary industries will be poor, while a country who focuses on secondary industries will be rich. No country has ever been rich on raw materials. No, not even my country with our oil - we got our level of wealth because we also produce the riggs we need to extract the oil. The oil is mostly a bonus, although a very profitable bonus. As for all other materials, including agricultural products, they will send you into poverty. Turning those materials into actual products is what makes you rich. England was poor until they stopped exporting their wool to Burgundy, and instead started producing their own wool-products(dates escape me, 14th century or so?), for example.

It is important for a country to have industry, as it provides technological progress, high wages and a bunch of other services. It's also important for a country to diversify its industry(to some extent, at least), to avoid plummeting should one industry fail. Agriculture is part of that. So is shoe-making. Thus, both the farmer and the shoemaker is an integral part of making our economy strong. Without them, we will be weaker. To that end, the state may see benefit in supporting some industries.

But a special status for farming? No way. Not in this world. While important to a country's survival, the farmer is no more important than the other trades in the country. A subsidy is fine, but on the same basis as every other trade, no special treatment.

We won't starve anyway.

[gaelic cowboy]

You're talking to a Norwegian here, remember fish farming is the basis of our fishing industry now, since you bastards fished our waters clean.

hmmm arent fish farms are effectively feeding a free resource to there fish.

[Sarmatian]

It is important for a country to have industry, as it provides technological progress, high wages and a bunch of other services. It's also important for a country to diversify its industry(to some extent, at least), to avoid plummeting should one industry fail. Agriculture is part of that. So is shoe-making. Thus, both the farmer and the shoemaker is an integral part of making our economy strong. Without them, we will be weaker. To that end, the state may see benefit in supporting some industries.

But a special status for farming? No way. Not in this world. While important to a country's survival, the farmer is no more important than the other trades in the country. A subsidy is fine, but on the same basis as every other trade, no special treatment.

We won't starve anyway.

Hardly. If you can't buy new shoes for a month you'll wear your old ones one month longer. In the case of food, you're dead.

Also, farming is tied to a location. While 50 shoemakers can build a shoe factory, 50 farmers can't move their land. Food is also relatively cheap, so transport costs can be huge additional expense. I can buy a watermellon in Serbia in late july or august for 0.1 euro a kg. If I want to buy a watermellon in June, I have to buy one produced in Macedonia, Greece or Turkey for 0.5 euro. It doesn't cost more there - if I'm in Turkey, I'd pay about 0.1, but to transport it 500-1000km raises the price several times.

Farming is also dependent on weather, so without state intervention, you could potentially have people going out of business when there's a bad harvest. Shoe making isn't dependent on the weather and shoemakers can make shoes at the same pace. They don't really care if it's raining outside, if it's -10 or +20 degrees.

So, you need to explain why would anyone grow food, which needs a huge investment, you need to wait for a very long time for the return of that investment (if ever), you're working a relatively dirty job outside (as opposed to shoemaking, which is done in nice, cozy, airconditioned factory), and you're never sure if the weather is gonna screw you over and instead of 3% profit you're gonna have a 20% loss.