Unit Upkeep and Army Running Costs...don't add up.

[Segmentata]

Hi,

I've recently started playing EB as Koinon Hellenon. After a pretty unfortunate start (moved the bulk of my army to take Crete and was stranded there after a weaker Macedon fleet effortlessly destroyed mine) I was prompted to calculate my unit upkeep to find out exactly why I was facing such horrific debt.

By going through the unit scrolls I tallied them all up to reach something like 1,800 mnai. However, the finance scroll puts my army running costs around 5,000 mnai.

Why is this? Isn't unit upkeep the same as army running costs? If not, then why are these extra, invisible costs so high? I'm not bothered that recruitment and upkeep are higher than they were in vanilla R:TW...but this just doesn't make sense to me.

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

your diplomats are being paid, too; as are your generals and family members. I've yet to hear about an aristocrat that didn't expect himself to be paid when on campaign.

[Ludens]

Diplomats, assassins, spies and family members all cost 200 mnai per turn, but that is listed under "wages" rather than "upkeep".

Did you also check your ships? Fleets are horrendously expensive, even by EB standards.

[d'Arthez]

I think the infantry FM for the Koinon Hellenon could even cost 800 (as an exception to the general rule of 200 / general), but I could be mistaken there.

[Segmentata]

I think the infantry FM for the Koinon Hellenon could even cost 800 (as an exception to the general rule of 200 / general), but I could be mistaken there.

Ah, yes, that would be it. Man those are some brutal BG costs.

Thanks for the tips. I will be forever frustrated by the 'roll of the dice' in R:TW naval battles though.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Thanks for the tips. I will be forever frustrated by the 'roll of the dice' in R:TW naval battles though.

Naval battles in EB are handled via auto-resolve. Auto-resolve gets more difficult the higher the campaign difficulty level is.

On Medium campaign difficulty, you can usually win with a 1.5 to 1 numerical advantage in ships over the enemy (assuming equal experience).
On Hard campaign difficulty, you need at least 2 to 1 numerical advantage in ships over the enemy to win. Or an equal number of ships one tier bigger than those of the enemy (e.g. they have Pentekonteroi, you have Triereis).
On Very Hard campaign difficulty, you need at least 3 to 1 numerical advantage in ships over the enemy to win. Or an equal number of ships two tiers bigger than those of the enemy (e.g. they have Pentekonteroi, you have Quadrireme).

This is another reason I play Medium campaign difficulty.

[Ca Putt]

+1 even your most humble(cheaper than most weaker ships of other factionsbtw) 50rowers cost you 700 mnai a turn.

probably not applying to your situation: afaik Generals(not family members) bodyguards also cost Upkeep rather than wage, which can hit the books with whooping four digits of mnai.

KH also is one of those factions that rely on a good(lucky) start, as otherwise you are whiped out by the Makedonians. My advice would have been to:
1. infiltrate kydonia.
2. use (only)the main army on crete to conquer it.
3. save your fleet in the Cretan harbor and disband all but one "ship"
the rest of your army is duely need on the mainland to take Korinth and defend against the royalists(makedon)
I usually get the cretan army over to the mainland by turn 2 or 3, depending on if I managed to infiltrate kydonia.

edit: OOOOOHHH, now I know, it's the Spartan generals BG, they cost the aforementioned 800 mnai upkeep, thanks for reminding me :)

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

My tips for starting a KH campaign are in this thread:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...or-new-players

Similar to Ca Putt's except I recommend taking Chalkis very quickly as well as Kydonia, and using the ships to fight the Macedonian ships rather than disbanding them.

[Ca Putt]

right, taking Chalkis before Corinth does have it's merits and retaining the ships helps with sea trade(aka macedonians blocking your ports) and reinforceing/evacuateing settlers in asia minor. In any case It's a good idea to get your main army off Crete asap as history showed :D