A Period of Calm between Israel and the Palestinians - Some graphs

[Idaho]

What a 'period of calm' looks like in the Occupied Territories

Three months have passed since the ceasefire that brought an end to Israel's eight-day attack on the Gaza Strip known as Operation "Pillar of Defence". This infographic depicts the number of attacks on the Gaza Strip by the Israeli military during this three-month period, as well as the number of Palestinian attacks emanating from Gaza. Since late November, Israeli attacks on the Gaza Strip have averaged over one a day, everyday. These include shootings by troops positioned along the border fence, attacks on fishermen working off the Gaza coast, and incursions by the Israeli army.

...so basically peace = Israel business as usual but with no come back. Doubtless those craaaazy terrorists will start "provoking" Israel again soon, which will give them a free pass to bomb a building or something.

[Fragony]

Show me the number of new setllements in the same period

Graph is wrong by the way, there were rocket attacks when tne inkt wasn't even dry

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Show me the number of new setllements in the same period

Graph is wrong by the way, there were rocket attacks when tne inkt wasn't even dry

The rocket attacks occurred prior to zero hour on the ceasefire. The information collected is from the first full day of the ceasefire. Your comment is moot. After the signing of the Armistice in November of 1918, combatants on both sides went right on shooting up until zero hour, which was within the letter of the agreement. This ceasefire functioned just the same.


My concern would be for the validity of the numbers based on the sources listed. However, quibbling over specific numbers would not obviate Idaho's basic point, to wit, that the Israeli's are still shooting (if much less frequently) while the Palestinians (other than one hotheaded mortar team) are not. He's suggesting that it isn't much of a ceasefire at all, that the borders are still functionally closed, and that this period of calm is working only to the advantage of Israel.

What say you to that?

[Fragony]

I'd say that 1918 was a long time ago. The current cease-fire was broken by Hamas (not sure about that one really) day one

[Idaho]

What say you to that?

He says that his opinions revolve around fixed points: Israel is always right, and A-rabs are crazy nutjobs who shouldn't/don't exist and who have no justification for fighting/living/protesting.

[Fragony]

He says that his opinions revolve around fixed points: Israel is always right, and A-rabs are crazy nutjobs who shouldn't/don't exist and who have no justification for fighting/living/protesting.

Sure mia muca, i plead guilty, not much use doing anything else is there as you seem to have made up your mind. But it still wasn't Israel that broke the truce.

[Strike For The South]

It's a ceasefire until an Israeli dies, then it's a start of hostilities due to the continued use of terror tactics by the Hamas government.

[HoreTore]

The rocket attacks occurred prior to zero hour on the ceasefire. The information collected is from the first full day of the ceasefire. Your comment is moot. After the signing of the Armistice in November of 1918, combatants on both sides went right on shooting up until zero hour, which was within the letter of the agreement. This ceasefire functioned just the same.


My concern would be for the validity of the numbers based on the sources listed. However, quibbling over specific numbers would not obviate Idaho's basic point, to wit, that the Israeli's are still shooting (if much less frequently) while the Palestinians (other than one hotheaded mortar team) are not. He's suggesting that it isn't much of a ceasefire at all, that the borders are still functionally closed, and that this period of calm is working only to the advantage of Israel.

What say you to that?

Oh come on Seamus - you're a leftist communist baby-eater, of course you support the terrorists!!

[Montmorency]

It's a ceasefire until an Palestinian dies, then it's a start of hostilities due to the continued use of terror tactics by the Israeli government.

!!!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Oh come on Seamus - you're a leftist communist baby-eater, of course you support the terrorists!!

I chuckled at this.

As you have no doubt guessed, I do not concur with Idaho's assessment -- while well intentioned, assessing any single ceasefire in that region (and especially among those combatants) in isolation will not produce enough of a "whole" story to evaluate. It just galls me that some individuals can miss his whole point so completely. You don't have to agree with someone's point in order to acknowledge it, but such an acknowledgement is a courtesy that SHOULD be part of any politely argued discussion.

As a scholar of conflict management and, at least for a time, a court appointed mediator, I am of the opinion that both parties need to dispense with the parsiflage and get down to some serious blood-letting. Until one party (loose terminology of course, there are a myriad of sub-groups involved) has been defeated, or at least shocked enough to bargain seriously (as in, bargaining with the knowledge that BOTH parties must achieve real value in order to uphold the deal), nothing productive will occur at the negotiating table.

Israel and Egypt were not capable of bargaining usefully until after the Yom Kippur war. In that dust-up, Egypt came within days of breaking the Israeli military and plowing Israel under -- which scared the Israelis. On the other hand, Israel demonstrated that it could still pull off miracles and that a "successful" Yom Kippur war redux would have required LOTS of dead Egyptians. Having finally proven that a purely military answer was too risky, they were able to sit down at Camp David and cut a deal. Until an analogous level of pain is engendered in the Hamas/Israeli war, no lasting deal will occur. Cynical perhaps, but I think supportable as an argument. They have to stop talking and kill each other for a while so that maybe they can then talk and listen.

Hardly the position of your typical leftist infantophage. I suspect that the little darlings would crisp up too quickly on the grill anyways.

[HopAlongBunny]

You are right. Israel with the preponderance of power will eventually reduce the Palestinians to dust.

The choice the Palestinians face is comparable to that facing Native Americans in Canada and the US; relinquish all to the aggressor: simply take what scraps are offered and live impoverished but peaceful; fight to the last drop and cease to exist.

The "right of might" has not disappeared from international relations, though most would blanch at that characterization.

[The Lurker Below]

Thank you for sharing this story. It is not terribly surprising. Terror attacks began in Palestine with Jews bombing Palestinian hotels in 1946. There are always two sides to a story, regardless of how much one wants to deny it.

[Hax]

Well, we have to put a sidenote to that.

Attacks against the British started in the 1920s and basically continued until the 1948 war. There were isolated incidents of Jews against Palestinians and the other way around, but the majority of attacks were directed towards the British.

[Hooahguy]

Interesting infograph, but I wonder how many of those killed/injured on the Palestinian side were Hamas and how many were civilians.

[Idaho]

Latest news is that the terrorist Palestinians are having a violent one day hunger strike which has prompted the ever patient Israeli state to demand the Palestinian authority "deal with" the protests. How long before Israel sends the benign and just ground attack jets to take out some terrorist installations hidden under schools etc?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Latest news is that the terrorist Palestinians are having a violent one day hunger strike which has prompted the ever patient Israeli state to demand the Palestinian authority "deal with" the protests.

What are you implying with the ""deal with"" remark? They presumably weren't hinting at anything violent on Hamas' part since these protesters are in Israeli jails. It is only natural that they are going to ask Hamas to take action when its own people are making a dissident response.

How long before Israel sends the benign and just ground attack jets to take out some terrorist installations hidden under schools etc?

I realise that Israel has the power to play the bully and often does, but the reality is that Hamas do hide behind civilian targets and structures.