Defense Distributed Is The Greatest

[Idaho]

As usual, the Europeans fail to understand a key part of our culture. Its okay, we forgive you for it. That's why generation after generation left your continent for this one in the first place.

I have never for once suggested that you yanks be prevented from shooting the crap out of each other. Go for it.

As for the US being some ultimate bastion of human migration - a perfect example of the ahistorical poppycock I alluded to on my last post.

[Kralizec]

No, no. Not an ultimate bastion of anything. Just the result of imperial conquest (by Europeans), hundreds of years of colonial warfare and intercontinental exploitation (by Europeans) that led to mass migration after (often forced--looking at you, Irish and Slaves) mass migration, and finally--in the early 1900s while you were all busy killing eachother by the millions--an actual bastion of migration away from the evils of a Europe that still can't get along after thousands of years of being packed in closer than sardines in a can. Forgive me for thinking there's a cultural gap.

Meh, a lot of those people went to the USA for economic reasons, real or perceived, and were encouraged by the US government to do so. For example I've read that in the late 19th century many impoverished Dutch people were deliberately lured to settle in Texas with images of a tropic paradise, with palm trees and whatnot. Imagine how dissapointed they must have been.

[HoreTore]

There were several migration waves to the US, all with different reasons for doing so.

If you want broad categorizations, I guess you could say that the first waves were based on oppression, while the later ones(post 1800's) were economically based.

A lot the famous ones from England/Dutchies/France were due to religious oppression. At the other extreme, all of the ones who left scandinavia did so for economic(or adventerous, I guess) reasons. Weirdly enough, all of the groups we've oppressed over the years have stayed put... Not even the Finns left!

[ICantSpellDawg]

Anything that would cause Europeans to eschew technological progress gives us the advantage. 3d printed guns could very well scare them off, more lunch for us.

[Beskar]

Why do I have a mental image of a computer virus 3D printing a bomb on all affected computers?

Food for thought.

[Montmorency]

Material constraints.

But a virus, I'm sure, could potentially waste all the 'ink' and muck-up the machine. That's plausible.

[Beskar]

Material constraints.

But a virus, I'm sure, could potentially waste all the 'ink' and muck-up the machine. That's plausible.

True, but many people are assuming a lot of complicated machinery like a space rocket can be made, so in that sort of light, some kind of IED could be created.

[Husar]

Anything that would cause Europeans to eschew technological progress gives us the advantage. 3d printed guns could very well scare them off, more lunch for us.

And you need all the lunch you can get, because while you're printing guns and celebrating your blackpowderian superiority, 15 million of you are suffering from hunger or malnutrition, probably being very proud to live in such a great country where you can suffer hunger and be called a moocher at the same time! Yeah, the availability of guns is really the most pressing issue you should worry about...

Edit: These photos of the weapons Syrian rebels use also show that some craftsmanship, education and other perks can help as well if you ever have to oppose the government. A 3D printer is not the only way to make your own gun, you have to know a lot about materials and how a gun works anyway. The fixation on guns ignores other important issues and that's a real problem, a lack of guns surely isn't a problem in America.

Edit 2: How's that fiscal cliff coming along anyway?

[Fragony]

There were several migration waves to the US, all with different reasons for doing so.

If you want broad categorizations, I guess you could say that the first waves were based on oppression, while the later ones(post 1800's) were economically based.

A lot the famous ones from England/Dutchies/France were due to religious oppression. At the other extreme, all of the ones who left scandinavia did so for economic(or adventerous, I guess) reasons. Weirdly enough, all of the groups we've oppressed over the years have stayed put... Not even the Finns left!

There has never been religious oppression in the Netherlands...

[HoreTore]

There has never been religious oppression in the Netherlands...

The most famous of them all, the Mayflower pilgrims, set sail from dutchistan, and their reason for migrating was to escape religious persecution

[Fragony]

The most famous of them all, the Mayflower pilgrims, set sail from dutchistan, and their reason for migrating was to escape religious persecution

They set sail from the Netherlands, but they weren't prosecuted in the Netherlands but in England. There has never been any here that's why they came here initially. The south is catholic and the north protestant

[HoreTore]

They set sail from the Netherlands, but they weren't prosecuted in the Netherlands but in England. There has never been any here that's why they came here initially

Never said there was any

Well.... Not counting the Jews you willingly rounded up and sent eastwards 70 years ago, of course...

[Tellos Athenaios]

They set sail from the Netherlands, but they weren't prosecuted in the Netherlands but in England.

Exactly. The Pilgrim Fathers set sail to America because Leiden was a tad too happy to let everyone live side by side without much care for their religions convictions, and the Pilgrim Fathers wanted to create their little utopia wherein they would be the one doing the religious prosecuting of anyone not quite protestant enough (in their eyes).

[Conradus]

There has never been religious oppression in the Netherlands...

Catholicism has been outlawed in the Netherlands from 1580-1850.

[Fragony]

Catholicism has been outlawed in the Netherlands from 1580-1850.

Not outlawed, protestant was just the state religion. Catholics have never been prosecuted for being catholics. You are probably referring to the haagepreken

[HoreTore]

Not outlawed, protestant was just the state religion. Catholics have never been prosecuted for being catholics. You are probably referring to the haagepreken

http://muse.jhu.edu/journals/ren/sum...4.harline.html

That fits the term "persecution" in my book.

[Kralizec]

There has never been religious oppression in the Netherlands...

Catholicism has been outlawed in the Netherlands from 1580-1850.

Papists don't count.

[Fragony]

Papists don't count.

It just isn't true

[Kralizec]

It just isn't true

What? That catholics were opressed?

Opression is a relative term, I suppose. Catholics weren´t allowed to openly practice or endorse their own religion, and I imagine that would have been a good enough reason for some to emigrate to, say, the USA.

There was no functional hiearchy for the catholic church until the second half of the 19th century, when the last restrictions were lifted and the Pope decided to rebuild the church organisation in the Netherlands. This caused widespread unrest in the protestant parts of the lands, and our king showed his support for the unrest by saying he understood where they were coming from and that he wasn´t a fan of the papists either. This prompted our government (led by Thorbecke) to resign, and this in turn led to the tradition that the king/queen doesn´t open his mouth without consulting the PM.

[Conradus]

It just isn't true

After the Dutch insurrection, Catholicism was considered an illegal religion. Normal Catholic celebrations were not possible in the United Provinces, therefore Pope Clement VIII decided in 1592 to declare the area above the river Waal as a mission area, as large portions of the area's population had fallen to Protestantism, at least officially, except for some minor staunchly Catholic regions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Mission

In practice, Catholic services in all provinces were quickly forbidden and the Reformed Church became the "public" or "privileged" church in the Republic.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Republic#Religion

[ICantSpellDawg]

Here is another great site about my obsession with guns.