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  1. #1
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defense Distributed Is The Greatest

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec View Post
    Papists don't count.
    It just isn't true

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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defense Distributed Is The Greatest

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    It just isn't true
    What? That catholics were opressed?

    Opression is a relative term, I suppose. Catholics weren´t allowed to openly practice or endorse their own religion, and I imagine that would have been a good enough reason for some to emigrate to, say, the USA.

    There was no functional hiearchy for the catholic church until the second half of the 19th century, when the last restrictions were lifted and the Pope decided to rebuild the church organisation in the Netherlands. This caused widespread unrest in the protestant parts of the lands, and our king showed his support for the unrest by saying he understood where they were coming from and that he wasn´t a fan of the papists either. This prompted our government (led by Thorbecke) to resign, and this in turn led to the tradition that the king/queen doesn´t open his mouth without consulting the PM.

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    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defense Distributed Is The Greatest

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec View Post
    What? That catholics were opressed?

    Opression is a relative term, I suppose. Catholics weren´t allowed to openly practice or endorse their own religion, and I imagine that would have been a good enough reason for some to emigrate to, say, the USA.

    There was no functional hiearchy for the catholic church until the second half of the 19th century, when the last restrictions were lifted and the Pope decided to rebuild the church organisation in the Netherlands. This caused widespread unrest in the protestant parts of the lands, and our king showed his support for the unrest by saying he understood where they were coming from and that he wasn´t a fan of the papists either. This prompted our government (led by Thorbecke) to resign, and this in turn led to the tradition that the king/queen doesn´t open his mouth without consulting the PM.
    And now we are the plurality in the Netherlands, as large as all other religions and denominations combined. Ain't that a rub? There is still work to be done on the irreligious.
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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defense Distributed Is The Greatest

    que?

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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defense Distributed Is The Greatest

    Quote Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg View Post
    And now we are the plurality in the Netherlands, as large as all other religions and denominations combined. Ain't that a rub? There is still work to be done on the irreligious.
    Meh, the majority nowadays is atheist or agnostic. Besides, a significant part of our catholics is of the lapsed kind which has embraced Babylon.

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    ‘Abdü’l-Mecīd-i evvel Member Kival's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defense Distributed Is The Greatest

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec View Post
    Meh, the majority nowadays is atheist or agnostic. Besides, a significant part of our catholics is of the lapsed kind which has embraced Babylon.
    Yo, the netherlands have 50 % people without a denomination. I wouldn't go so far to call them all atheits or agnostics, though. Most of the people without a denomination came from protestant families, that's why there are now more catholics than protestants now. Quite some protestants are also evangelical nowadays.

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    A Member Member Conradus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defense Distributed Is The Greatest

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    It just isn't true
    After the Dutch insurrection, Catholicism was considered an illegal religion. Normal Catholic celebrations were not possible in the United Provinces, therefore Pope Clement VIII decided in 1592 to declare the area above the river Waal as a mission area, as large portions of the area's population had fallen to Protestantism, at least officially, except for some minor staunchly Catholic regions.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Mission

    In practice, Catholic services in all provinces were quickly forbidden and the Reformed Church became the "public" or "privileged" church in the Republic.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Republic#Religion

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defense Distributed Is The Greatest

    Quote Originally Posted by Conradus View Post
    After the Dutch insurrection, Catholicism was considered an illegal religion. Normal Catholic celebrations were not possible in the United Provinces, therefore Pope Clement VIII decided in 1592 to declare the area above the river Waal as a mission area, as large portions of the area's population had fallen to Protestantism, at least officially, except for some minor staunchly Catholic regions.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Mission

    In practice, Catholic services in all provinces were quickly forbidden and the Reformed Church became the "public" or "privileged" church in the Republic.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Republic#Religion
    They were forbidden only on paper, in practise they were allowed. There were time-schedules to avoid eachother. No political power for the Vatican though

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    A Member Member Conradus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defense Distributed Is The Greatest

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    They were forbidden only on paper, in practise they were allowed. There were time-schedules to avoid eachother. No political power for the Vatican though
    Nor any public offices for Roman Catholics, fines if you let your house be used for religious practices etc. It's not because Catholics weren't burned at the stake, that they were free. By our definitions, the Dutch Republic suppressed Catholicism.

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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defense Distributed Is The Greatest

    Quote Originally Posted by Conradus View Post
    Nor any public offices for Roman Catholics, fines if you let your house be used for religious practices etc. It's not because Catholics weren't burned at the stake, that they were free. By our definitions, the Dutch Republic suppressed Catholicism.
    Surpressed the Vatican, but catholics weren't harmed. The catholic church was a political power that was cut off because of the war with Spain and that remained, but catholics were allowed to practise, but discretely.

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    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defense Distributed Is The Greatest

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Surpressed the Vatican, but catholics weren't harmed. The catholic church was a political power that was cut off because of the war with Spain and that remained, but catholics were allowed to practise, but discretely.
    That's a load of rubbish by your own words they were suppressed if they couldnt be open about religious observance.
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  12. #12
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defense Distributed Is The Greatest

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    That's a load of rubbish by your own words they were suppressed if they couldnt be open about religious observance.
    Of course there was religious intolerance, but catholics were never prosecuted. There were seperate hours, and there were the haagepreken, that was well known by everyone, it was the political power of the vatican that was cut off.
    Last edited by Fragony; 02-28-2013 at 20:09.

  13. #13
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Defense Distributed Is The Greatest

    Here is another great site about my obsession with guns.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

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