Armor the best defense stat, while defense skill the worst?

**drmihnea** · 03-07-2013, 15:57

Hi all,

I have been wondering lately, is armor the best defense stat by far?

I've read the description of the various defense stats, and the explanation is as follows:
- armor - affects any attack, from any direction, including missiles
- shield - affects only attacks from the front and left side, including missiles; for missiles, the shield value gets doubled, when attacked from the front
- defense skill - affects only attacks from the front and right side, excluding missiles, which pass unimpeded

It seems that, for the same total defense value, it is better if it is composed mostly from armor and a little bit from shield, to reduce missile damage from the front. It appears to me that the defense skill is the worst by far, unless for some reason you are charged by cavalry from your right, but then you are in a terrible position anyway.

Am I getting the proper picture?

Cheers,
Mihnea

**fallen851** · 03-07-2013, 16:48

I believe that you are correct, though defense skill might affect attacks from any directions, sources seem to be mixed.

**Arjos** · 03-07-2013, 17:20

Thing is units with AP (armour piercing) weapons, will enjoy cutting the armour clad soldiers to pieces :P

EB, played without exploits, is all about versatile armies, with different units capable of performing different tasks...

**Kralizec** · 03-09-2013, 00:12

You're generally right.

My own impression is:

- armour always works, regardless of conditions on the battlefield (for armour-piercing effects, see below)
- shield bonus always works from the left and front sides; against missiles they seem particulary effective*
- defense skill: I think, but am not entirely sure, that it decreases with fatigue. I suspect that if a unit is charged from the rear the defense skill will initially not apply since the unit has its back turned towards the attacker.

Armour piercing effect partially counters the defense bonus from the enemy's armor with an attack bonus. In the first Medieval: total war it provided roughly 1 attack point for every two points of armour. I'm not sure what the formula in RTW is.
For comparison: Hetairoi and Hellenic cataphracts are very similar units; the only stat difference is that Hetairoi has less armour but compensates this with extra defense skill, leading to an equal amount of "defense points" total.
Since both the primary and secondary weapons of these cavalry units are armour piercing, the Hetairoi will most of the time win against Hellenic cataphracts.

*there's been speculation that a shield bonus of +1 is actually more effective then +1 armour when countering missiles in general. I'm not entirely sure if this is the case. Another theory is that when a missile hits, the hit-chance is first calculated against the shield bonus and secondly against the armour. Whichever is the case, shield bonus works tremendously well against slingers. A unit that has both decent armour and a decent shield (3 to 5 points) is well protected against all forms of missiles.
Units with big shields but very few armour, like those Celtic spear militias, are very vulnerable to decent archers. Conversely, a unit with no shield but with decent armour (like Prodromoi) are more vulnerable to slingers than archers.
Units like cataphracts, i.e. no shields but a tremendous amount of armour, are practicly invulnerable to archers and only somewhat vulnerable to slingers. More armour is still better as far as enemy slingers are concerned.

**Ibrahim** · 03-09-2013, 04:31

actually in RTW, shield mostly gives bonuses to the front and right, with the opposite for defense skill. this is at least the case for melee.

it is otherwise (i.e. vis a vis missiles) as you describe.

source:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...bat-Parameters

I'm coincidentally doing my own study, for the SYW mod I'm making. it's going to be plotted soon.

**Blxz** · 03-12-2013, 02:01

Originally Posted by Ibrahim

actually in RTW, shield mostly gives bonuses to the front and right

Really? I don't doubt your tests but this makes no sense realistically since the shield is traditionally held in the left hand.

**Brave Brave Sir Robin** · 03-12-2013, 23:30

Yeah but this is a known bug. So run your units to the left across an enemy's line.

**fallen851** · 03-13-2013, 16:57

Originally Posted by Brave Brave Sir Robin

Yeah but this is a known bug. So run your units to the left across an enemy's line.

That is sad. Though the EB team could have compensated by placing the shield in the right hand.

Also it appears that the shield value gets a bonus against missile attacks from the front, and is better than pure armor at resisting frontal missile attacks.