Colorado passes Gun Control Laws

[ICantSpellDawg]

Empty Platitudes? Not really. I want a just and fair system, not a plutocracy.

Platitudes. Anyway, I'm begin to troll people, so I will bow out. for now...

[ICantSpellDawg]

Show me the mass-shooting where the firearm wasn't purchased by the perp using a NICS check. Show me one instance of mass death that would have been prevented by one of the laws proposed. Maybe I'm missing it. Then we can resume the gnashing and criticizing. Doesn't mean filling the loopholes isn't a good idea, but the overreaction is priceless. None of these people procured using the loopholes.

Psychiatric Dr's are not prohibited from alerting authorities if they believe that a patient is an immediate threat. This is the current law everywhere.
I cannot buy a gun online from anyone outside of the State of NY without undergoing a NICS background check at a local FFL. This is the current law everywhere.
Any individual or store who is in the business of selling firearms at a gun-show must provide a background check. If you regularly sell firearms, you must run the check. This is the current law everywhere.
If you are a violent felon, a regular user of a controlled substance or have been adjudicated mentally defective or were recently committed- you have committed a felony by handling a firearm. This is the current law everywhere.

If the Toomey-Manchin law was passed, would there still be loopholes? Yep. How about the Reid bill unammended. Still loopholes? Yep.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I just wanted to point out that the NRA is one of the unhealthiest examples of lobbying gone horribly wrong. Gun Control? Seriously? That's not even important. Lets talk about Citizens United v. FEC, Super PACs, and the triumph of 'pragmatism' over 'idealism' in American politics.

Your problem with the gun lobby special interest group is that they are not a different special interest? I don't follow. They do a good job defending and expanding the right to keep and bear arms - this is their mission. It isnt their job to reduce crime, or enact gay marriage, or de-salinize the middle east. They need to make sure that I can access whatever firearm I can, wherever I am without the government interfering. The brady campaign, citizens for responsible gun rights, mayors against illegal firearms can worry the limits. NRA, GOA - they are the defense and offense of the right and their job is the blast down impediments that even threaten to threaten threatening the right of the people to keep an bear arms.

AND THEY ARE DOING A FANTASTIC JOB! they deserve your credit as someone who doesn't get harassed by governmentfor owning your guns. Without the NRA, GOA, imagine where your rights would be every-time progressives get the bright idea to ignore your rights on this issue.

MAIG, CRGL, Brdy - they are all anti-gun organizations. They aren't for responsible gun laws. they want to ban 10 round AR-15's because they look scary and will come for your glocks for being functionally equivalent if they think that they can get away with it. Take it from me - we have a 7 round magazine limit in NY now which is the "compromise" amount. They wanted (and will eventually probably get) 5 rounds. And after that? You don't really need 5, right? You can reload, and semi-automatics are used on the battlefield, right?

[ICantSpellDawg]

the Anti-gun lobby will use anything to hammer gun owners/manufacturers with lawsuits. The gun lobby has learned a number of things from the tobacco lobby - what not to let happen. I'm not part of the tobacco loby because it is chemically addictive and makes people ill. The gun lobby is not equivalent. no ciggarete has ever saved a life, they don't win wars, help arrest criminals, protect your home and property and loved ones. False equivalence.

[ICantSpellDawg]

Yes, of course. A lobby is a group of people with a common interest. I don't "oppose" the tobacco industry, I support individuals rights to make their own decision. I am skeptical about a product that stacks the deck and creates a chemical dependence, hence I don't "support" the tobacco lobby, I take a more neutral approach. I do support the firearms lobby because they support the citizens rights lobby. We have a mutual interest.

I oppose the gay marriage lobby but support the "keep the government out of my bedroom" lobby. You can decide strategically what you support in order to effect the changes you want.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I'm glad that they make so much money, it keeps them in the game. The reality is that if Google didn't make so much money from content creation arising from questionable online copyright issues, they probably wouldn't be fighting for our rights as hard and SOPA/PIPA would be the law of the land. We are merely pawns in the game. nobody cares about us. We form groups because there is strength in number. Emotions get carried away, creating a sense of cameraderie, but the reality is that everyone is in it for themselves. Sometimes, in order to look just and fair and thus show potential allies that you are willing to put skin in the game, you do things that don't directly benefit you. But, boy-oh-boy, does that benefit you later when people give you credit for being so principled and selfless. Smart politicians invest in the short term and long term.

I think that you are naive about why anyone does anything. Or maybe I am. And I think that you should probably stop smoking or cut back, because it is a stupid idea. But I would defend your right to do it, just not with everything I've got because you have a chemical dependence.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I think that the idea that everybody just wants to harmonize is a bunch of bunk. As I regularly say, this is a total war forum. Harmony and Chaos are human natures. I would hate a world where everyone is just blowing each other and dancing around in hemp underwear. Strife and fighting make the world interesting. So does vegetable gardening, but I digress.

people are 90% selfish and 10% dumb and confused enough to do altruistic things.

I would hazard a guess that that's partly because you have a lot more invested in the status quo than I do. I gain nothing from rich people getting richer. I gain nothing from a spineless government that is happy to be manipulated by those who don't need the help. My interest is in a better system.

It really is selfless that all of these poor and disenfranchised people want to do "the right thing" and take wealthy peoples stuff for their own gain. It's all a bunch of hoey. Poor peopel are just trying to get richer and rich people are trying to stay rich. I'm just a monkey wrench launcher who likes to disrupt populist impulses. I derive pleasure from attacking the majority opinion and making sanctimonious liberals and their idea of "inevitability" frustrated.

[LittleGrizzly]

I used to be very anti gun.

To be honest my policy has completely changed, for America at the very least.

The genie is out of the bottle and with organisations like the NRA it is not going back in, even without them you probably couldn't do it the way modern America is.

Arm everyone, train everyone (everyone does exclude those proven to be mentally unstable or a criminal, children probably require it just as much, if not more than everyone else) make sure everyone knows how to use their gun quickly and effectively.

I imagine the average criminal for various reasons (element of surprise, probably better physical shape, more likely at peak physical ages) would have the advantage over regular people but if you have enough people shooting back at the guy even a few bad shots might have one get lucky.

Yes I imagine there will be innocents that get shot by people trying to shoot at bad guys but in the case of the school shooters it would be worth one or two innocents dying at the start to kill the shooter for the lives he would have taken later on....

Background checks for all guns does seem sensible (as to stop the mentally ill and criminals) but to me most things outside of that are pretty much window dressing.

If I am shooting at a bunch of unarmed school children the size of the clip doesn't really matter too much if it is a reduction from say 10 to 5. If I as a shooter cared that much I would practice my reloading and I am sure with repetition I could get it down to a pretty low time...

As a numbers game I think it only really works for school shooters and the like, in terms of going into a shop and demanding the money is handed over there is probably much more risk of innocents getting hurt in the gunned up society but as the guns are not going anywhere why punish the shop keeper?

The criminal has a nice selection with the only limitations being what can be stolen/imported (or bought legally) whilst the shopkeeper is confounded by all sorts of rules...

Sorry for not being more specific on the topic but I guess that is my take on guns in the USA.