BSR's Edu Updates/Suggestions Thread

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I just hope we got some faster horses, and some noticeable differences when a unit is fresh or exhausted.

I can probably guess the edu doesn't deal with those things, So migrating to EBNOM would be the best option, i think.

Actually Storm, the fact that I've removed good stamina from most non-elite heavy infantry has decidedly changed the way you would typically use them. They tend to slow down and tire much quicker now as opposed to lighter units.

And TCV I agree with many of your points, the only two points I would make are that KH actually has more mercenaries than most Hellenic factions so those slots are definitely valuable and you can do a lot with them (Balearic Slingers and Scythian Archers come immediately to mind). Also, the Scythian Noble cav gets the price reduction associated with Sarmatian units iirc, hence their ridiculously low price compared to other cav in their tier.

[Vlixes]

Actually Storm, the fact that I've removed good stamina from most non-elite heavy infantry has decidedly changed the way you would typically use them. They tend to slow down and tire much quicker now as opposed to lighter units.

Does this applies to Cohorts? Those were, after the Marian reform, dedicated war corps. I think they must have good stamina. Apart from that, I've the feeling that now Heavy Infantry will be useless. But I'm talking without knowing. Perhaps is just a change in the way a general should use them, and that's good.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

Cohorts retain good stamina due to their extensive training and drilling. Phalangites do as well though that may have more to do with the way the engine handles them than anything else.

Heavy infantry shouldn't be running around much. They should advance into javelin range, toss their javs, and then begin to exert themselves. In other words, you shouldn't be able to race heavy infantry into position without much penalty. They will still fare very well in the main line but keeping fresh reserves may also be more important. They will in no way be useless

[Vlixes]

Cohorts retain good stamina due to their extensive training and drilling. Phalangites do as well though that may have more to do with the way the engine handles them than anything else.

Heavy infantry shouldn't be running around much. They should advance into javelin range, toss their javs, and then begin to exert themselves. In other words, you shouldn't be able to race heavy infantry into position without much penalty. They will still fare very well in the main line but keeping fresh reserves may also be more important. They will in no way be useless

I saw you already had addressed this issue in the end part of the changelog. Sorry.
Also, wouldn't be a just idea to pump Neito's morale +1? They've 13. I think 14 is fair for non elite but trained heavy infantry.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

I saw you already had addressed this issue in the end part of the changelog. Sorry.
Also, wouldn't be a just idea to pump Neito's morale +1? They've 13. I think 14 is fair for non elite but trained heavy infantry.

I think pumping Neitos morale further lessens the distinction between them and Arjos. 13 and disciplined is already extremely difficult to break, its not as if you seen Neitos running with more than 25-30 men left in the unit often. I would consider a +1 morale but it would come at the cost of a price bump. If anything I want to add higher charge bonuses to Celtic and Germanic units to increase their shock effect and those would be more or less free.

[Vlixes]

If anything I want to add higher charge bonuses to Celtic and Germanic units to increase their shock effect and those would be more or less free.

It's a sound idea. I saw the 12 or so increase to Arjos charge. I wonder, why not increase Solduro's too? It has to do with some age distinction between the units?

And, btw, I'm not sure, but I think most standard heavy infantry has 14 morale, like Cohorts, Loricati Scutari -now-, etc., so maybe we need to see Neitos morale in relation to all factions and not only inbetween Arverni, which also not considers the Aedui status of Neitos, for Aedui don't have Arjos in roster. Well, an idea I got.

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

OP updated to include the newest edu. Now the ownerships of all units should be fixed for MP use so feel free to load up this edu and test it out if you wish.

To test this EDU, please place the export_descr_units file in your mp game edu backup folder in the EB folder. I recommend backing up your current MP edu first. To test the missiles file, replace the current projectiles_new file in the EB/Data folder, of course backing up the original first. Note that the detailed stats when you mouse over a unit card have not been updated. That mountain I won't bother scaling unless the edu is finalized and approved for use.

[The Celtic Viking]

And TCV I agree with many of your points, the only two points I would make are that KH actually has more mercenaries than most Hellenic factions so those slots are definitely valuable and you can do a lot with them (Balearic Slingers and Scythian Archers come immediately to mind). Also, the Scythian Noble cav gets the price reduction associated with Sarmatian units iirc, hence their ridiculously low price compared to other cav in their tier.

That's baloney. Baloney I say!

Regarding KH and it's mercenaries, I disagree. There are three mercenaries that I usually consider for their individual usefulness - Brihentin, Thraikioi Peltastai and Scythian Archers. That's basically it. There are definitely others that I like to bring too, but none that aren't because I'm still a Keltophile at heart, or that can't easily be replaced by a factional anyway. I'm not convinced that Balearic slingers have any use at all, to be honest; at the very least I'm not convinced they're meaningfully better than Rhodians, but both are more expensive than I'd like to pay for what is still a small and vulnerable slinger unit anyway.

(Of course, I also forgot that KH has the Hippeis Xystophoroi as well, who are factional cost the same as Lonchos while being better. So, only reason to bring Lonchos are if you a) don't want to spend merc slot/s on Brihentin, b) really want cav at that price range, and c) require shields. I.e. not very often indeed. Though that's of course unrelated to the Kopis.)

[Brave Brave Sir Robin]

That's baloney. Baloney I say!

Regarding KH and it's mercenaries, I disagree. There are three mercenaries that I usually consider for their individual usefulness - Brihentin, Thraikioi Peltastai and Scythian Archers. That's basically it. There are definitely others that I like to bring too, but none that aren't because I'm still a Keltophile at heart, or that can't easily be replaced by a factional anyway. I'm not convinced that Balearic slingers have any use at all, to be honest; at the very least I'm not convinced they're meaningfully better than Rhodians, but both are more expensive than I'd like to pay for what is still a small and vulnerable slinger unit anyway.

(Of course, I also forgot that KH has the Hippeis Xystophoroi as well, who are factional cost the same as Lonchos while being better. So, only reason to bring Lonchos are if you a) don't want to spend merc slot/s on Brihentin, b) really want cav at that price range, and c) require shields. I.e. not very often indeed. Though that's of course unrelated to the Kopis.)

You may feel this way because most of the merc units KH has access to are lower tier units but think about it for a minute. They get access to Enoci Curoas which are a pretty decent flanking/reserve unit for a faction that lacks longswords. They get the above mentioned Thrakioi, Scythians, and Brihentin which are all quality units. They get Iberi Caetrati which I have made substantially better (as I felt they were lacking and are supposed to be some of the best light infantry in the world), they also get Balearics whom I love (pair them with a few Scythians and you can protect them long enough to wreck havoc on any and all cavalry), and if I'm not mistaken KH also has access to horse archers. You may decry the lack of a fear unit in KH's roster, but I don't see their merc options as worse than Makedonia or Ptolemioi, equal at least to Epeiros, and, well everyone has less diversity than the AS so I can't decry that shortcoming.

But lets stop arguing over the KH mercs, even if it is good fun 'ole chap Please continue to give suggestions on the edu, what you like and what you don't like. The Lonchophoroi issue can certainly be addressed.