68 Years Ago Today

[Strike For The South]

The barbarous Russians decided they were done raping every woman in Eastern Europe and WWII in Europe ended.

Better dead than Red.

It really is a black stain on the victory. Certainly I dislike NAZIs, but the fact we entered a pact with the most depraved people and nation state of the last century is so very sad.

[Montmorency]

чорт падбири тибя

[Strike For The South]

I don't use the Cyrillic alphabet. I'm a civilized human being.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I don't use the Cyrillic alphabet. I'm a civilized human being.

Oh please!

Condemn the Soviets, especially under the leadership of Dze Gausveeli [sic?] all you wish. He was every bit the monster Adolf was and his go to guy Beria was even more of a sicko than most of the crew working for Hitler -- which is pretty nasty to say the least. On the other hand, condemning an alphabet, and by impllication the entire collection of cutlures associated with it, is a bit much.


Atrocities happened with appalling frequency on both sides of the Eastern Front. This was especially true of second-echelon troops on both sides, where rapine and looting were as bad as anything a medieval army could produce and on occurred on a scale that beggars the imagination. Moreover, as you rightly sneer at, it was the effective POLICY of both combatants to treat the civilians that way. Nauseating stuff.

[HopAlongBunny]

We, we, we did it for music!



P.S. Where else would the Allies find 20+ million people to die for the cause?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

The death toll is probably exaggerated, and in any case it's the result of the REd Army being crap-tastic after the purges.

But, yeah, we were hoping the Reds would bleed out and the White Russians would be able to take back the country.

[Husar]

The barbarous half humans known as Russians [...] the most depraved people

Thank you for your application, but the position of propaganda minister last held by mister Goebbels has been vacant since 1945 and is currently not scheduled for replacement.

[Strike For The South]

Thank you for your application, but the position of propaganda minister last held by mister Goebbels has been vacant since 1945 and is currently not scheduled for replacement.

What do turkeys have to do with this?

[Husar]

What do turkeys have to do with this?

They grow on trees.

[Papewaio]

Thank you for your application, but the position of propaganda minister last held by mister Goebbels has been vacant since 1945 and is currently not scheduled for replacement.

It is written on The Wall of Text!!!!????(tm) that HollyWood already has that position.

While I believe Strikes hatred of both KAV and Soviets is that he secretly wants to be a communist bar tender seeing to all the needs of the Soviet woman.

[Fragony]

The Germans have behaved horribly in Russia, I can kinda understand the Russians acted horrible as well

[Brenus]

"I'm a civilized human being." You mean, belonging to a civilisation having roots with Greece?

[Empire*Of*Media]

What do turkeys have to do with this?

Turkey too forcibly transplanted 10 Million the poor Kurds to anywhere else except their homeland !!so many Brave Kurdish Girls & Women Revolted against their tyranny & Racism,revolt had little success, Britain & USA Aided Pan-Turkist Ataturk, and they wildly killed & Raped much of Them because only they were Kurds & wanted to speak with their own language !!(Like Armenians) but you know, no one knows because Turkey is a NATO member !!
and still the genocide of Saddam Hussain & Arabs upon the Kurds remains to be told that i think its a little off topic !!

oh excuse i thought you mean TURKEY not Turkey !!!

[Empire*Of*Media]

Please In My Posts dont misunderstand !! i mean no hatred or offend to anyone !!

-

It is written on The Wall of Text!!!!????(tm) that HollyWood already has that position.

While I believe Strikes hatred of both KAV and Soviets is that he secretly wants to be a communist bar tender seeing to all the needs of the Soviet woman.

Exactly Right!!

"I'm a civilized human being." You mean, belonging to a civilisation having roots with Greece?

you think only wild spartans & slaver greece was civilized !!!??? so all the world is a barbarian against the ancient greece's(and its lovers) eyes ??!! so im sorry for you, you dont know anything !!!!!

[Fragony]

German's didn't rape, you kidding me. The Germans have been an absolute terror to the Polish and the Russian people, the chivalry they showed in western-europe was completily absent in the eastern countries

[Rhyfelwyr]

Meh, Churchill and Truman were two of the most devastating war criminals that history has even seen.

[Greyblades]

Is that as in "most devastating because of the scale of the wars they were in were devastating regardless of their respective involvement" or as "they were manically destructive bastards".

[Tellos Athenaios]

I just like it when Rhy is being contrarian.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

Meh, Churchill and Truman were two of the most devastating war criminals that history has even seen.

By modern lights, yes. Churchill's sanction of the Hamburg Fire Attack and Truman's decision to nuke a second Japanese city alone would count as war crimes by current definitions as both leaders were certain of massive civilian casualties and made no efforts to minimize or limit those deaths. In fact, it can be argued that both leaders sought those civilian deaths in acts of terrorism (modern definition) designed to break the will of the opposition. In Truman's case, it can be argued that the act of terror worked.

Remember, however, that if you apply modern definitions to the acts of the past, most human cultures are little except for a collection of war criminals and thugs. Most of the Roman justice code involved what is labeled torture by modern definitions. The Feudal system of Western Europe was based on serfdom (functionally on slavery). Drogheda & Badajoz were sacked because they did not surrender when outnumbered and had to be assaulted. Aussie infantry in the trenchs of the Western Front were noted for their "too late chum" practice of bayonetting any surrendered German who -- in their opinion -- had been firing their weapon for too long before surrendering.

Be careful when applying modern definitions of morality and ethics to the past. Such applications are not without value, but they rarely account for the "there-then" context of those actions very well.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Is that as in "most devastating because of the scale of the wars they were in were devastating regardless of their respective involvement" or as "they were manically destructive bastards".

The latter, since they were aware of the scale of their actions, though the former naturally allowed it.

Churchill and Truman have proven themselves to be mass murders by their own actions - that they didn't attempt to slaughter their own populations like their enemies did is simply a happy consequence of the fact that they didn't happen to regard a large portion of them to be untermenchen or security threats.

[Sir Moody]

you think only wild spartans & slaver greece was civilized !!!??? so all the world is a barbarian against the ancient greece's(and its lovers) eyes ??!! so im sorry for you, you dont know anything !!!!!

The Greeks actually coined the term Civilised and Barbarian which is what Brenus was joking about - funnily enough the Greeks didn't consider the Spartans civilised...

[Husar]

The Feudal system of Western Europe was based on serfdom (functionally on slavery).

You mean a social contract. The citizenry provided vital labor and the lord and his men offered security and upholding of the law in return. Of course not all of the protectors took the protection aspect to heart, but today we have similar issues with protection vs privacy/freedom. There were actually a few cases where peasants won lawsuits against noblemen in courts, at least in Habsburg Germany/Austria.
All in all I'm sure they had a jolly good time without having to watch reality TV all day.

[Greyblades]

The latter, since they were aware of the scale of their actions, though the former naturally allowed it.

Churchill and Truman have proven themselves to be mass murders by their own actions - that they didn't attempt to slaughter their own populations like their enemies did is simply a happy consequence of the fact that they didn't happen to regard a large portion of them to be untermenchen or security threats.

Meh, war is dirty business, still dont see what makes these two particularly destructive that isnt explained through access to methods of war unavailable to most of the rest of history's war leaders.

[Fragony]

Meh, war is dirty business, still dont see what makes these two particularly destructive that isnt explained through access to methods of war unavailable to most of the rest of history's war leaders.

Seems pretty obvious where the difference is, after the Netherlands was pwnd German soldiers had to solute captives. In the east taking prisoners wasn't all that important they just got killed

[Greyblades]

...what? We were talking about Churchill and Truman not hitler and stalin.

[Fragony]

...what? We were talking about Churchill and Truman not hitler and stalin.

It's an example not an argument, do I have honey on my ass

[Greyblades]

It's an example not an argument, do I have honey on my ass

I am very confused.

[Fragony]

I am very confused.

That's ok admitting it is step one

[InsaneApache]

That's ok admitting it is step one

I came to believe that I was powerless over my confusion.

[Idaho]

What is going on in this thread. Some kind of bigotry amnesty been called?