New M2TW Hotseat Game: Sign Ups/ Rules Discussion

[Nightbringer]

Hello everyone!

Well with a couple of new faces around here, and just two games running currently, I think this is a fine time to get something new started.

The concept is based on something I have been kicking around in my head for a while now, but is certainly not set in stone.

Essentially, Crusade mechanics are fully allowed, but all players are required to play as Catholic factions. I feel that this should give some real weight to what the Pope thinks, and possibly lead to some interesting situations of contest when crusades are called.

As to other rules, and mod choice, I think just about anything would be fine. I would probably lean towards stainless steel 6.2 for mod personally.

In any case, if you are interested please speak up, and if you have an opinion about rules o mod, please let it be known!

Here are the basic set of rules we use in almost all games for reference. Obviously, the rule against crusades would be removed, and a requirement of only playing catholic factions would be added.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Each player has 48 hours to complete his turn (not counting weekends). After that the Admin may skip his faction or he can be subbed.

Do not bypass or ignore zones of control to lift a siege (or in any other way).

Do not attack ships in ports.

Armies boarding ships in ports can't stay there for more than one turn.

Don't leave blockaded ports without beating the blockading ships first.

Don't stack merchants in armies or forts to get more than one to stand on the same resource (Merchant Fort)

No surrounding armies or agents to destroy them. (Surround&Destroy)

Don't attack units who were left next to a settlement in order to capture it on the same turn in order to cheat the garrison script. In fact don't cheat the garrison script period. (this only applies vs AI factions)

Don't use repeated offers for bribe to increase your faction leader's dread.

Enable "Unlimited men on battlefield" in order to not abuse when leading battles vs the AI (PM me for instructions, though SS has this on by default)

Armies that are defeated in battle by a player that comes after them in the turn list may not move the following turn. This is to make it fair for people who are defeated by players that come before them in the turn list, and thus lose all their movement points

Armies that are defeated in battle may not be attacked on the following turn, as they are banned from moving, either by the game mechanics or by the rule above. They must be allowed to move first, or must be reinforced. If the defeated army retreats to a settlement or fort, this rule does not apply.

Ballistas can't open anything, catapults can open wooden walls, trebuchets or better can open anything.

Assassins are allowed to target anyone but the players are limited to one assassination attempt per turn. It must be the first action they do, before they spend money or do anything else. Upon a successful assassination the game admin can load that player's save and attempt the assassination. If the results are different there will be penalties for cheating.

Spies are not allowed to open anything.

Crusades and Jihads cannot be called, joined or used/exploited in any way.

ONLY religious buildings can be destroyed upon the conquest of a settlement and ONLY if they are of a religion different than your own.

No trading of provinces to receive free troops. If you trade provinces, make sure they have no garrison prior to the exchange.

No deliberate deals that would put you in debt above -10,000 florins.

[Myth]

Why 6.2? I'm in nevertheless. Oh, and bribing the Pope should be banned - no gifts of money, land and so on (alliance should be fine).

[LooseCannon1]

Why 6.2? I'm in nevertheless. Oh, and bribing the Pope should be banned - no gifts of money, land and so on (alliance should be fine).

I have to second the "Why 6.2?" question. Bit of a step backwards and requires multiple installs of SS.

Also, Catholic factions allied with Papal States receive boosts to their faction's standings and prevent them from being excommunicated. That's why no alliances with PS should ever be allowed.

[Myth]

Oh no, the Pope can break the alliance if you annoy him enough. He just can't insta-excommunicate you, he has to break relations first.

[Nightbringer]

6.2 was just me forgetting what we having been using, i meant 6.4

As to gifting to the pope, I could go either way on that one. I feel like ti might actually be kind of interesting to let people do that, especially since it would give assassins plenty of work trying to kill off diplomats that are persuading the pope. Probably no land gifting still though. What if we made it so that minimum gift to the pope was 1000 florins? That way you could still bribe him, but it would come at a real cost.

[Myth]

Yeah but how would you enforce this rule? From my sp experience, the pope is happy to ally with any catholic nation if it isn't at war already. A gift of 100 florins for the next 999 turns works well enough, whilst obviously not as good as 5000 florins right now. 1000 florins is paltry, really. If you want to wage war vs a catholic faction AND be in good with the pope, you have to gift 5000-8000 florins every time you start dropping below the middle of the pope-o-meter.

So this is another issue - a rich HRE player can start a war with a small faction like Genoa or Denmark and wipe them out at the cost of only a couple of bribes which, to such a large faction, will be worth the cost. OTOH a faction with 2 provinces can't afford a 6000 gold bribe.

I think some sort of Casus Beli rule should be added, so that if someone plays the role of the expansionist he faces more than just theoretical excommunication, but also military action by the other catholic factions. The Crusade will be the stone that trips the wagon, because you can juggle the Pope with bribes and also fight a war with your neighbors but if you bite off more than you can chew, you start losing too much money and thus can't keep your papal relations up and presto - you get steamrolled because someone else had the money to bribe the pope and call a crusade on you.