Amazon: Total War 8.0 Release

[Balgeron]

Hello, i being playing some more and i am pretty sure that Far East Celts are totally broken.

The faction two units are ridicules, i think i being writing about this before - but here goes.

You fixed the War Wagons (the house-chariot, which is now weaker and can be beaten by spearmen, but it still has too low upkeep, it should be at least 100 or more. That its someone house doesn't change the expenses needed for it), but the other one - i think its called Battle Wagon, or Battle Chariot, i am not sure - this unit is completely retarded. Some of the new units has too high armor/defense compare to already existing ones, but this is something - it got like 50+ armor, while being an open chariot with lightly armed girls. Why is that please?

When similar units got it very low, even of Amazon factions - i think chariots got defense 1 or something low, meaning that they can be beaten with archers, and are more hit and run unit. But this thing is totally retarded.

The other unit i think you know - the Linked Armor-Clad Cavalery - this unit needs some serious nerfing. Now you gave it a great looking new model, with iron spears up front, but it doesn't change fact that its invulnerable to everything bar the Longbow Horse Archers. The unit cannot be killed on battlefield, even with the strongest spearmen (those super expensive girls with scythes, that cost 1500,takes 2 turn to build and got 430 upkeep! - compare to the LACC that cost i think around 700 and got upkeep 120, while also being much lower tier).

Everything just gets slaughtered - so i would propose to make this unit vulnerable to the thing it was vulnerable in reality - i don't know HOW, but Huns owned Far East Celts, and Huns got only 1 thing going - Horse Archers. So the normal arrows (from basic archers, not the heavy attach of Longbow Horse Archers) should be enough to put this thing down and would make most sense, as the LACC destroys everything in melee - so you should remove their invulnerability to arrows.

This also breaks the campaign mode, as no other faction can face Far East Celts - for instance, most factions are quite even - though Armens(Love the battle towers!) and Iberia (wow!) now have some upper hand.

The campaign with them can go either way - Geothe, Suebi, Western Celts, SPQR, Th..something Amazons, Saramites, Thyssa Amazons, Dacia, Selecusya, Egypt, Macedonians, Lybian Amazons - this factions are the best and most balanced.

Factions that still need help are definitely Parthia (who always gets owned) and Carthage (that get hit by Lybian Amazons straight off the start). Scythians and Averni too - they are too weak, and could use some special units. Doesn't have to be amazons. Also Greeks are somewhat meh.

And other factions needs also some more naval power as well. Incidentary Catapult Trimes destroys everything.

Besides this, you are making a great improvements and this is definitely best mod for any Total War game that has being made so far, and definitely one of the best i ever played.

[parthian shot]

Thank You, Balgeron,

For your lively and forthright comments as well as your words of encouragement.

On the Household Wagons,

A great deal of study actually have been given to come up with the current upkeep of the unit.
The premise is that a group of pasture following people are being given a Lord's decree to own pastoral lands in a region. They would move from pasture to pasture on the wagons. In exchange for the land, their military service is mandatory but of the upkeep of the vehicle is their own responsibility, the weapons and munitions, are also their own obligation.

On the Battle Wagon,
The horse team and the wagons are armored and the chassis is made of stout frame and protected "parasol" cover. The crew is not lightly armored, at the least on the upper torso.

On the Linked Armor Clad Cavalry,
The effect is to simulate wide charging formation. And it is not invincible at all.

In the Amazons Total War, there are multiple layers of unit hierarchy

Level 1: Entry level infantry and cavalry
Level 2: Armored infantry and cavalry
Level 3: Super heavy cavalry (elephant)
Level 4: Household wagons, light tank
Level 5: Battle Wagon, heavy tank
Level 6: Linked Armor Clad Cavalry, simulating panzer divisions
Level 7: anti tank incendiary units and area denial weapons
Level 8: anti-tank incendiary artillery.

Each higher level in hierarchy represents a higher dimension of warfare. What you have experienced are battles fought with out-matched level of hierarchy. In other words, when the units are outclassed, the battle can be fairly one sided.
There is no plan to make the Linked Armor Clad Cavalry any weaker, because the player needs to fight such force with higher level units in the unit hierarchy.

You might also have noticed when the AI plays the Far East Celt, there are special balance monitor in place, so Far East Celt never should venture out of its home base to gain too many regions. This also makes the game of world domination very interesting, because the last region can also be the most difficult region.

On Parthia,
Not sure how to make it more playable. But it has been noted before. If you have any ideas, please feel free to share.

On Carthage,
If the AI plays Carthage, it is just another plain faction. However, if the human plays Carthage, the faction can seek out and fulfill the quest. Celeste and I are working on a new script that will allow a reminder to the player that the Player's faction (vs. AI faction) have not achieved the Quest yet. Once Human played Carthage achieved the Quest, the situation will be reversed in North Africa.

On Scythia and Avernii,
They are not really playable factions.

On Incendiary Trireme,
There should not be a match to the Incendiary Trireme. It is basically a navy with long range howitzer artillery on medium built warships.

[Balgeron]

The Far East Celts definitely don't stay at home. In game i playing, they overrun Selecusia(wiped them out completely), made protectorate from Thyssa and now we are fighting for Egypt(wiped by me by part and them by part) and western Selecusia (i play Lybian Amazons).

And even if the unit is so powerful, the thing is that its so easy to make. I don't know now the exact tech tree for Far East Celts, but Linked Armor Clad Cavalery and Battle Wagons should definitely require more then just blacksmith (last time i think they needed just that) - i would think something like the Library/scriptorium equivalent, i don't know now if the barbarians factions have that even though.

I really don't know much about Parthia, sorry - shouldn't they be the one of have Hassassins? (the assassin warriors that were in Medieval total war or Assassin Creed, they were like Fremen from Dune there - with stealth and such).

[Wheeliepaul]

The Far East Celts definitely don't stay at home. In game i playing, they overrun Selecusia(wiped them out completely), made protectorate from Thyssa and now we are fighting for Egypt(wiped by me by part and them by part) and western Selecusia (i play Lybian Amazons).

And even if the unit is so powerful, the thing is that its so easy to make. I don't know now the exact tech tree for Far East Celts, but Linked Armor Clad Cavalery and Battle Wagons should definitely require more then just blacksmith (last time i think they needed just that) - i would think something like the Library/scriptorium equivalent, i don't know now if the barbarians factions have that even though.

I really don't know much about Parthia, sorry - shouldn't they be the one of have Hassassins? (the assassin warriors that were in Medieval total war or Assassin Creed, they were like Fremen from Dune there - with stealth and such).

Which version of the game do you play? Normally the far east celts don't spread that much. Did you play the anti-imperial campaign or a quest campaign?
Do you always start the game in the questmode when you start playing?

How to beat the Linked Armor Clad Cavalry: shooting fire arrows on them makes them running amok so they kill their own units

[parthian shot]

The Far East Celts definitely don't stay at home. In game i playing, they overrun Selecusia(wiped them out completely), made protectorate from Thyssa and now we are fighting for Egypt(wiped by me by part and them by part) and western Selecusia (i play Lybian Amazons).

And even if the unit is so powerful, the thing is that its so easy to make. I don't know now the exact tech tree for Far East Celts, but Linked Armor Clad Cavalery and Battle Wagons should definitely require more then just blacksmith (last time i think they needed just that) - i would think something like the Library/scriptorium equivalent, i don't know now if the barbarians factions have that even though.

I really don't know much about Parthia, sorry - shouldn't they be the one of have Hassassins? (the assassin warriors that were in Medieval total war or Assassin Creed, they were like Fremen from Dune there - with stealth and such).

The assassin is a great idea! Even though t the Man of the Mountain is about 1,000 years later, it might be interesting to see if there is a historical precedence.

The stealthiness on the battlefield has already been used a great deal by the Amazons so would be redundant.

[Wheeliepaul]

new unit cards

[parthian shot]

Beautiful Work! Paul

Is there any more battle/recruitment tiles at 48x63?

Thanks

[Wheeliepaul]

haven't made the 48x63 tiles yet but don't worry I will deliver them this week.

[parthian shot]

haven't made the 48x63 tiles yet but don't worry I will deliver them this week.

NP, just wondering, that is all.

[Balgeron]

I played Anti-Imperial campaign, and activate the script always when starting game.

EDIT: Just tried now Tyssa Amazons, the game is impossible to win as the two above mention unit can't be killed at all (The Far East Celts are going straight for you). The battle wagons can't be damaged with neither spearmen, nor any archers. You can fire at them for hour and not one lose will be done. The same on Linked Armor Clad Cavalery. Even if you try to reslove the battle automatically, you get results like 10 deaths on enemy side, with yours getting utterly beaten and losses up to 500+ (playing with normal unit sizes).

Please don't tell me this is fine.

[TemplarKnight]

I downloaded the file about a month ago and where i gave up trying to download 8.0 and stayed with 6 i believe. However i am willing to try it again with a little help. If anyone can offer it. I really like the game. From what i have been able to play except that in the version i have been able to play some of the amazon units over powering. but over its a great mod thanks for it.

[Dragour]

Balgeron has recently made comments about several units being over powered, like the Horde Wagons used by the Far East Celts. In my games any faction that has several (sometimes even one) Horde Wagon will win an Auto Resolve but an insane amount (like Balgeron said, 10 kills to the enemy while current army is wiped)
Charging the Horde Wagons into high tier spearmen/phalanx does manage to kill atleast half the unit, but almost every unit is easily destroyed by the wagon (EVERY unit) so I was wondering is it possible that while they are 'Horde' form, they should cost nothing (but give each faction much less to start with!) and when recruited they should cost a fair bit to buy and maintain. Either that or change their stats to be defeatable by top tier units which are supposed to be able to defeat them =P

Just saying the wagon currently is a problem in my personal opinion.
Also the population for barbarian lands, they can barely muster an army without degrading all city population to 400 while the neighbors, Rome, Carthage etc all have high populated cities with fairly advanced unit rosters from the start (Rome is acceptable) so by the time Gaul have an army and fought off the rebels in their land (who have horde wagons..) here comes Rome with around 5 legions =P
Maybe if the horde wagon's were fixed then the barbarians wouldn't have to waste thousands of troops trying to kill rebel armies that have them aswell, giving them a chance to fight the 'empires' when they arrive.

All just personal opinion!

[parthian shot]

I downloaded the file about a month ago and where i gave up trying to download 8.0 and stayed with 6 i believe. However i am willing to try it again with a little help. If anyone can offer it. I really like the game. From what i have been able to play except that in the version i have been able to play some of the amazon units over powering. but over its a great mod thanks for it.

If you still have problem, please answer the following questions:

1. did you download the mod file, and extract the content of the mod file to a temp folder?
2. If extract the content of the mod file to a temp folder, did you copy the AmazonsTW-Refulgent folder in the temp folder to the Rome Total War directory?
3. if you copy the AmazonsTW-Refulgent folder to the Rome Total War directory, did you rename your previous AmazonsTW-Refulgent folder to something else before copy the AmazonsTW-Refulgent folder in the temp folder over to the Rome Total War folder?

[Wheeliepaul]

I downloaded the file about a month ago and where i gave up trying to download 8.0 and stayed with 6 i believe. However i am willing to try it again with a little help. If anyone can offer it. I really like the game. From what i have been able to play except that in the version i have been able to play some of the amazon units over powering. but over its a great mod thanks for it.

maybe you didn't change the name in the shortcut of the game. Should be something like this: C:\Program Files\The Creative Assembly\Rome - Total War\RomeTW-BI.exe" -mod:AmazonsTW-Refulgent

[TemplarKnight]

I have the shortcut saying something like that i am not sure i will have to check when i get home but when i read your first reply do i need to have a copy of one of the previous version of amazon total war in the files and then add the new file Amazon refulgent so like that it i have both?

[parthian shot]

I have the shortcut saying something like that i am not sure i will have to check when i get home but when i read your first reply do i need to have a copy of one of the previous version of amazon total war in the files and then add the new file Amazon refulgent so like that it i have both?

You don't need to have a previous installed Amazons Total War to install the new one.

If you do have a previously installed Amazons Total War mod, and if you want to, you can delete the entire Amazons Total War folder from the Rome Total War directory and then copy the AmazonsTW-Refulgent folder from under the extracted file folder to the Rome Total War directory.

[Wheeliepaul]

I have the shortcut saying something like that i am not sure i will have to check when i get home but when i read your first reply do i need to have a copy of one of the previous version of amazon total war in the files and then add the new file Amazon refulgent so like that it i have both?

If you don't want to delete 6 you just unzip the 8 version in this place and you should see a new map named AmazonsTW-Refulgent. make a copy of your shortcut and change the name to AmazonsTW-Refulgent. If you open the picture you see how it looks

Untitled-1.psd

[Wheeliepaul]

If you don't want to delete 6 you just unzip the 8 version in this place and you should see a new map named AmazonsTW-Refulgent. make a copy of your shortcut and change the name to AmazonsTW-Refulgent. If you open the picture you see how it looks

Untitled-1.psd

now with the correct picture

[Wheeliepaul]

new unit cards

[parthian shot]

Great Cards! Paul

And thank you for helping out with explaining the installation.

[krisslanza]

I want to echo the problem with the Linked Cavalry. If the intention was the Far East Celts only attack if they are attacked, I can say it's false - they will declare war on all their neighbors, and this single unit will pretty much win them the game.

Not only is it a beast in melee, it's 25 armour means it's essentially immune to everything unless you are Goethe with fire bombs and the like, perhaps. Thyssa doesn't even have fire arrows, so you can't panic the things either. I was attacked by the Far East Celts pretty much within the first 20 or so turns of the game, and barely had any 2nd tier towns at all. My first engagement with one I had an army of around 1200, and the Celts brought about 120. The odds were 1:1 in autoresolve. I ended up losing about 600 units, and the Linkeds even killed 100 units while it was ROUTING.

In the second engagement, I had 900 troops and they had only about 40, 38 of those were Linkeds. They killed the entire army, and lost 1 horse. I will admit in this case, I just charged 900 troops into them, but I had tried using arrows first but they were utterly immune.

Not only do these units have an insanely high armour, their 6HP means even if you can hurt them, it'll take a significant amount of abuse to even start killing them. These things are like M2TW Generals, but you can make them. They need either to be completely re-done, or the scripting for Far East Celts is utterly broken.

[TemplarKnight]

thank you thank you thank you..... I extracted it to a temp folder and then copied it to the rome folder and then made the shortcut and ran changed the target and it ran. Thanks for the help, the way i was doing it before i would just extracted it straight to the rome folder and i guess some files where left out when i would but now i am running and gaming and best game ever!!!! thanks again....

[parthian shot]

I want to echo the problem with the Linked Cavalry. If the intention was the Far East Celts only attack if they are attacked, I can say it's false - they will declare war on all their neighbors, and this single unit will pretty much win them the game.

Not only is it a beast in melee, it's 25 armour means it's essentially immune to everything unless you are Goethe with fire bombs and the like, perhaps. Thyssa doesn't even have fire arrows, so you can't panic the things either. I was attacked by the Far East Celts pretty much within the first 20 or so turns of the game, and barely had any 2nd tier towns at all. My first engagement with one I had an army of around 1200, and the Celts brought about 120. The odds were 1:1 in autoresolve. I ended up losing about 600 units, and the Linkeds even killed 100 units while it was ROUTING.

In the second engagement, I had 900 troops and they had only about 40, 38 of those were Linkeds. They killed the entire army, and lost 1 horse. I will admit in this case, I just charged 900 troops into them, but I had tried using arrows first but they were utterly immune.

Not only do these units have an insanely high armour, their 6HP means even if you can hurt them, it'll take a significant amount of abuse to even start killing them. These things are like M2TW Generals, but you can make them. They need either to be completely re-done, or the scripting for Far East Celts is utterly broken.

An excerpt from the old Kung Fu episodic....

Awhh! Grasshopper! There is a little secret called the Quest which will defeat many Linked Armor Clad Cavalry.

Master Parthian Shot

[parthian shot]

thank you thank you thank you..... I extracted it to a temp folder and then copied it to the rome folder and then made the shortcut and ran changed the target and it ran. Thanks for the help, the way i was doing it before i would just extracted it straight to the rome folder and i guess some files where left out when i would but now i am running and gaming and best game ever!!!! thanks again....

Glad to hear you have worked out the problem, please feel free to log onto ModDB and provide us ratings.

[krisslanza]

An excerpt from the old Kung Fu episodic....

Awhh! Grasshopper! There is a little secret called the Quest which will defeat many Linked Armor Clad Cavalry.

Master Parthian Shot

While this might be true in the Quest Campaign, it probably won't help in an Anti-Imperial Campaign, unless you're Goethe I suppose, who can probably use their fire-jars to deal with it...

[parthian shot]

While this might be true in the Quest Campaign, it probably won't help in an Anti-Imperial Campaign, unless you're Goethe I suppose, who can probably use their fire-jars to deal with it...

Great Question! The Anti-Imperial Campaign also has Quests, the Quest Campaigns only have different AI behaviors when the Quest is completed.

[krisslanza]

Great Question! The Anti-Imperial Campaign also has Quests, the Quest Campaigns only have different AI behaviors when the Quest is completed.

Oh? Interesting. I haven't found any Quests still... I still think the aggressiveness of the Far East Celts makes Thyssa at a severe disadvantage though.

[parthian shot]

Oh? Interesting. I haven't found any Quests still... I still think the aggressiveness of the Far East Celts makes Thyssa at a severe disadvantage though.

Let have a quick overview of the mod:
-. there are different behaviors and configurations when the AI plays a faction, say Far East Celt, compared to a human player.
-. When a human player is playing Far East Celt, all the options are enabled
-. When AI plays the Far East Celt, Celeste has built a monitor which makes sure the Far Celt will remain un-aggressive, this logic may need improvement, but it works 100% of the time during matrix tests. The reason is precisely so the AI will not "abuse" the linked armor cavalry.
-. if any player found the Far East Celt to be dominating the world while it is not played by the human, this is a bug.

So when we heard player posting the comments about Far East Celt, it would be helpful if that comment can state if it is addressing Human Player or AI.
As for human player playing Far East Celt, the linked armor clad cavalry's functionality is as intended, the tactical formation is not cure-all medicine, and it has plenty of foes which can easily destroy such units.

[krisslanza]

Let have a quick overview of the mod:
-. there are different behaviors and configurations when the AI plays a faction, say Far East Celt, compared to a human player.
-. When a human player is playing Far East Celt, all the options are enabled
-. When AI plays the Far East Celt, Celeste has built a monitor which makes sure the Far Celt will remain un-aggressive, this logic may need improvement, but it works 100% of the time during matrix tests. The reason is precisely so the AI will not "abuse" the linked armor cavalry.
-. if any player found the Far East Celt to be dominating the world while it is not played by the human, this is a bug.

So when we heard player posting the comments about Far East Celt, it would be helpful if that comment can state if it is addressing Human Player or AI.
As for human player playing Far East Celt, the linked armor clad cavalry's functionality is as intended, the tactical formation is not cure-all medicine, and it has plenty of foes which can easily destroy such units.

I can say that while playing as Thyssa, the FEC declared war on me without my provoking them at all. In my other games I see them engaging in wars, and I think they're the aggressor but I'm not sure.

EDIT:
Hmmm, I think Libyans had a quest for conquering Carthage? I did so but nothing really happened... to be certain, to make the script work you just click on the ? in the ESC menu, then the "Show me How" button and done right? I'm wondering if I've ever got the script to work...

[Wheeliepaul]

The Far East Celts definitely don't stay at home. In game i playing, they overrun Selecusia(wiped them out completely), made protectorate from Thyssa and now we are fighting for Egypt(wiped by me by part and them by part) and western Selecusia (i play Lybian Amazons).

And even if the unit is so powerful, the thing is that its so easy to make. I don't know now the exact tech tree for Far East Celts, but Linked Armor Clad Cavalery and Battle Wagons should definitely require more then just blacksmith (last time i think they needed just that) - i would think something like the Library/scriptorium equivalent, i don't know now if the barbarians factions have that even though.

I really don't know much about Parthia, sorry - shouldn't they be the one of have Hassassins? (the assassin warriors that were in Medieval total war or Assassin Creed, they were like Fremen from Dune there - with stealth and such).

I did a quick 110 turn (playing Geothe) test with the latest version of the game trying to replicate this. The far east celt did attack the thyssa amazons right away and managed to conquer 6 regions in the beginning but after a while the Thyssa amazones strike back and became the upperhand. After 110 turns the far east celts just have a minor army and 3 regions left. This kind of behaviour is normall for the far east celt in my games.
I don't say the problem doesn't exist just couldn't replicate it.