[Thureophoroi] How would you use them?

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

This is the the stack I was talking about. Not historical (for that region at least) but essentially fits everything Quintis mentioned.

[Frtigern]

Uh, as I said, this isn't EB and they're not an all-thureophoroi army. It's about whether a thureophoroi-style force will work as the main line. They'll have supporting elements of archers, probably various Celtic levy skirmishers, a small hoplite phalanx and a fair bit of medium (Celtic) cavalry.

The Illergetai are close enough that someone might be able to hire a band of them, but most of the others are too far to the north (how are those Remi getting through the various confederations in between them and us?) or off deep into Spain. This game is in and around Massalia, in the far south of Gallia.

Oops, I'm sorry. I was just going off of building an Aedui force from a united Gaul to Iberia. Well, the Thureophoroi are not best line troops there. Keltohellenikoi Hoplitai are the Celtic equivalents and I feel they are better. Better javelin range but with one less javelin. Better spear attack, same defense, are highly trained, a bit cheaper and have a denser formation. It also reflects Massalia as a ethnic melting pot of Hellenic and Celtic culture and arms. Just as your Massaliotai Hoplitai are a hoplite unit with a longsword and a hoplon, a most unique combination exclusive to that unit. It makes you think twice when charging them with short swordsmen, if they don't carry a falcata or kopis. Your better line units would be Hoplitai, Thorakitai, Thorakitai Hoplitai, Syrakosioi Hoplitai and Epilektoi Hoplitai. The Thorakitai Hoplitai, Syrakosioi Hoplitai and Epilektoi Hoplitai come from Sicily and Southern Italy but it's not unreasonable to see them in Massalia.

[Blxz]

I tend to agree with basileus ton basileon in that they can be a very useful jack of all trades unit. I find myself using them in much the same way i would use a roman army. I keep them defensively positioned and tend to use them as both a light line in rough terrain as well as flank protectors. Their mobility allows them to fall back fairly easily to draw enemy infantry into a 'Cannae' style surround. I wouldn't use them as aggressive flankers since their lack of overly heavy armour can make them a little fragile against some shock forces. On the whole though, they are very good in many roles with a good balance to fit most things needed of them.

[QuintusSertorius]

This is the the stack I was talking about. Not historical (for that region at least) but essentially fits everything Quintis mentioned.

What if you were going for something more historical? I'm guessing Keltohellenikoi/Thureophoroi as the main part (perhaps four units), maybe a unit or two of mercenary Hoplitai, two or three Gaeroas, a unit each of Iaosatae and Kretan archers, a couple of units of Curepos, one of Thracian mercenary cavalry, then your general.

[Basileus_ton_Basileon]

That was actually my 'royal' army, I justified it by using all the proceeds from the thracian and athenian mines. If you want something more historical and standard, I would replace the hypaspistai with Hoplitai, while replacing the agrianikoi and tintanotae with galatikoi kurarophoroi and Gaeroas; yes a unit each of kretan and iaosatae. I'll replace the prodromoi with with Curepos, and the lonchophoroi with Brihenten/Lavotuxri. The Hetairoi could be replaced with more Thraikioi prodromoi, or anything else of your choice.

The key to this stack is the usage of thuerophoroi/keltohellenikoi hoplitai line in cohort with the cavalry. This is especially true for the keltohellenikoi hoplitai as you have less armour and is more reliant on the density of the line.

[Picenian]

it may seem strange but playing with the KH and Baktria I didn't felt the need for thureophoroi or thorakithai except in provinces that can't recruit top phalanxes. Bot units look too much "average" too me. What I mean is, they are not classic lineholders nor barbaric close-combat fighters. So I prefer a combination of hoplitai and/or phalanxes flanked by ie Thrakioi Romphaiophoroi (I conquered practically all of Epeiros with the KH using this). With the Baktrians I used pezethairoi/kleruchoi in the center and whatever infantry I could recruit on the flanks (eastern axemen were awesome!). Personally I can see why thureophoroi and thorakitai were not widely deployed by hellenic armies, and I also can see why the Romans called them "imitations"... they were not actual imitations, but indeed they are like less powerful roman infantry. Just my opinion :)

[Ca Putt]

Well in EB this IS the case, but mostly because Hoplite and Phalangite phalanxes are almost as mobile as thureophoroi, which does steal them their main Advantage. In reality These Formation would be much less mobile as a high degree of discipline and training would be needed to preform maneuvers like every Panda Phalanx or hapless hoplite can preform in EB. Not to speak of the 360° analogue turn the AI can pull off with engaged pikes.

In EB however that's how it goes as KH I often let my FMs attempt a Military Reform, thus All Cities of atto-rhodian alligience train Thureophoroi and reformed hoplites while the Pro-Pelloponienians do Hoplites and slingers. They normally fail at this Reform :/ and provide cavalry instead. Later, when they can field entire armies they retry with Thorakitai which is more successfull and I end up with one Traditional Hoplite army(with supporting armies of similar nature) in the west and a Thorakitai based army with lots of auxillaries and cavalry(with supporting armies of similar nature) in the east.

[Picenian]

with KH (After uniting Hellas under my rule) I started kickin Seleukid butts with mid-size hoplite armies supported by peltastai, cretan archers and thessalian/xystophoroi cavalry. This way I also took out Pontos and pushed the border to Trapezous / Ani-Kamah / Antiochia, just to hold the Seleukids at bay. My defensive armies there was substantially a bulk of thureophoroi mixed with local troops (cappadocian hillmen, asian riders and the amazing caucasian archers) and the border was practically unpassable :D

Then I formed my western army to expand in southern Italy, Massilia and the two Spanish provinces... and that was exentially top quality hoplites (epilektoi, tarantinoi) + KH phalanx. As flankers I used mainly Thracian, Celtic or (in Italy) Hastati. Cavarly was as usually provided by Thessalia and some Prodromoi. When Sicily was tamed, I created another army of Syracusan Hoplites which are in my opinion one of the best KH units, and used them as flankers in my conquest of Italy (up to Arretium and Ariminum).

Historically speaking, I think I would have done the same :D barbaric or semi-barbaric units (thracians expecially, I LOVE the thracians and they were my fave faction in vanilla RTW) would have made much better flankers in my opinion. Expecially against the Romans, that can hack to shreds the more similar Thureophoroi/Thorakitai. And I think historically barbaric infantry would have been more mobile too! Of course that would imply a strong Hellenic domination over Thrace, which practically never happened...

[Ca Putt]

I like to roleplay a lot with the KH, investing my Money in Huge fleets and ridiculous Buildings rather than more Epilektoi. I don't think I have a lot of those at all, mostly in my western(classical) Support armies as I can't give all of them Spartiatai. While my eastern armies normally have less hoplitesque elites.

I do like to use a lot of Thorakitai and Thureophoroi when playing other Hellenic Factions or parthains for that matter. mainly because I'm not quite that fond of Phalangites as the Successors were.