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Thread: I don't understand Chemistry

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    Apr 04-Nov 11 Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
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    Default I don't understand Chemistry

    An am extremely jealous of those that do.

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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    If you can cook you can understand chemistry.

    Food is edible chemistry.

    If you want to start easy go with yeast: learn to home brew beer and make you own bread.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Chemistry is the Science of Things That Go Bang.

    Finding out how to make things go bang is what defines us as males. Thus, SFTS can no longer be counted as a male. A metro at best.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  4. #4
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Pretty simple no, neutrons are mass, and protons and and electrons bind together

  5. #5
    Do you want to see my big Member spankythehippo's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Pretty simple no, neutrons are mass, and protons and and electrons bind together
    Well, that is clearly wrong. Protons and electrons hate each other. The nucleus is the culmination of neutrons and protons, the main source of mass. Electrons just like to fly around the nucleus.


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    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio View Post
    If you can cook you can understand chemistry.

    Food is edible chemistry.

    If you want to start easy go with yeast: learn to home brew beer and make you own bread.
    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Chemistry is the Science of Things That Go Bang.
    Neither of these are really enlightening towards understanding the fundamental beauty of chemistry that is essential to properly understanding what it is about. Another "enlightening" definition I have come across is that chemistry is really the study of the electron.

    Chemistry is the study of matter but bounded to only the dimensional scales that us humans can actually manipulate, which at this point is down to the individual atom (to go any further down is probing the nucleus which begins to enter the realm of particle physics). Everything that constitutes Chemistry is essentially the numerous relations and principles repeatedly observed through empirical experimentation over the last 400 years.

    Just for anybody curious visiting this thread, there are really good starter Chemistry videos at both Khanacademy.org as well as the CrashCourse Chemistry series which is currently ongoing.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.

  7. #7

    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Bee vomit and yeast poop makes booze; all ye need to know
    Ja-mata TosaInu

  8. #8
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by spankythehippo View Post
    Well, that is clearly wrong. Protons and electrons hate each other. The nucleus is the culmination of neutrons and protons, the main source of mass. Electrons just like to fly around the nucleus.
    Protons have no mass

  9. #9
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Protons have a mass very similar to Neutrons.

    Photons are mass less (that is why they travel at light speed).
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
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    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

  10. #10
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio View Post
    Protons have a mass very similar to Neutrons.
    nope.

  11. #11
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Neutrons are slightly heavier then protons. But not hugely so, together they are classed as nucleons.

    If neutrons are free ie they are not bound to a proton they will decay. The neutron will split into a proton, an electon an an antineutrino.

    Now to really mess with your mind it is possible to use that information to figure out the ratio of neutrons to protons in the universe.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
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    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
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    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    nope.
    Okay....?

    Could you please call Hawking and tell him you have groundbreaking new information for him?
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  13. #13
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    Okay....?

    Could you please call Hawking and tell him you have groundbreaking new information for him?
    I tried but he doesn't pick up the phone for some reason. But protons have no mass. They sit in the core of an atom and keep electrons in check with magnitism, plus and minus, atoms can be stable or unstable depending on the amount and the number of spheres of electrons. That is basic chemistry, atoms can merge and form molecules

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    That is basic chemistry, atoms can merge and form molecules
    That is indeed both basic and correct, but protons still do have mass.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by HoreTore View Post
    That is indeed both basic and correct, but protons still do have mass.
    Protons have mass - electrons and photons have negligible mass.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


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    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    I tried but he doesn't pick up the phone for some reason. But protons have no mass. They sit in the core of an atom and keep electrons in check with magnitism, plus and minus, atoms can be stable or unstable depending on the amount and the number of spheres of electrons. That is basic chemistry, atoms can merge and form molecules
    Let me put it this way. If protons have no mass, the sun started out pretty much mass less and is slowly creating more mass. That would in turn make us slowly falling into the sun (not counting that a mass less sun wouldn't be able to keep any planets in the first place). I think Pape is correct and you mixed up photons and protons on the mass matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    Protons have mass - electrons and photons have negligible mass.
    Photons has no mass, although they still do have momentum. With the Higgs particle confirmed, it means that photons doesn't interact with the Higgs particle, afaik.

    Correct that the electron mass is negligable compared to a proton.
    Last edited by Ironside; 06-25-2013 at 13:03.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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  17. #17
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    Protons have mass - electrons and photons have negligible mass.
    Photons are the protestants of the world of chemistry.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  18. #18
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Protons were discovered by Ernest Rutherford - a home schooled New Zealander.

    They have a mass of 1.6726 x 10^-27 kg each.

    Neutrons 1.6749 x 10^-27 each.

    So neutron is heavier but not by much.

    Electrons are a mere 9.109 x 10^-31 kg

    Electrons are to Protons what grams are to kg (~ three orders of magnitude)
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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  19. #19
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside View Post

    Photons has no mass, although they still do have momentum. With the Higgs particle confirmed, it means that photons doesn't interact with the Higgs particle, afaik.
    Sure they but they need a negative

    Oops, I'll leave this here so you can have a laugh at me and mock my very existance
    Last edited by Fragony; 06-25-2013 at 19:01.

  20. #20
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Not laughing at you. Just sad that school missed teaching you science.

    Chemistry is about how atoms and molecules interact; psychology for molecules. It is a crossroads between biology and geology and it uses physics to describe the models of the atom and molecules.

    Chemistry defines elements by the number of protons they have:
    1 proton = hydrogen
    2 protons = helium
    3 protons = lithium
    4 protons = beryllium
    5 protons = boron
    6 protons = carbon
    7 protons = nitrogen
    8 protons = oxygen

    That's the first eight and most important to us as a large chunk of biology uses carbon, oxygen, nitrogen and hydrogen.
    Oil is essentially different combinations of Carbon and Hydrogen. Whilst alcohol is composed of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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  21. #21
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    An am extremely jealous of those that do.

    Moles and Avocados are best left to the Mexicans
    https://www.khanacademy.org/science/chemistry

    My favorite thing to do every time I get lost in my head. Watch Khan Academy and go to Mass.
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  22. #22
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio View Post
    Not laughing at you. Just sad that school missed teaching you science.

    Chemistry is about how atoms and molecules interact; psychology for molecules. It is a crossroads between biology and geology and it uses physics to describe the models of the atom and molecules.

    Chemistry defines elements by the number of protons they have:
    1 proton = hydrogen
    2 protons = helium
    3 protons = lithium
    4 protons = beryllium
    5 protons = boron
    6 protons = carbon
    7 protons = nitrogen
    8 protons = oxygen

    That's the first eight and most important to us as a large chunk of biology uses carbon, oxygen, nitrogen and hydrogen.
    Oil is essentially different combinations of Carbon and Hydrogen. Whilst alcohol is composed of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen.
    All you mention are molecules, atoms have only tree building stones.

  23. #23
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    All you mention are molecules, atoms have only tree building stones.
    Yes, but depending on how many of those they have you get different atoms.

    IIRC their numbers are usually equal, so oxygen would have 8 protons, 8 neutrons and 8 electrons, though I'm not sure about the neutrons, IIRC sometimes they are not equal to the protons. If there are less electrons than neutrons you have an ion, it has an overall positive load. Ionisation is basically when an electron is kicked out of an atom by something from outside. I forgot what it's called when there are more electrons, could be isotope but IIRC isotope was some other deviation where it's the same element but has more neutrons or protons or something.

    I know it's important and interesting but somehow I'm not that fond of chemistry...


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    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    The number of protons determine the element. Protons are electrically positive.

    If there are more or less electrons then protons it is an ion. Typically it is less when the atom is heated and it 'sweats off' an electron. Electrons are electrically negative.

    Neutrons are electricall neutral. An element can have multiple isotopes for instance Carbon 12 and Carbon 14.
    The element Carbon has 6 protons. Carbon-12 is 6 protons and 6 neutrons. Carbon-14 is 6 protons and 8 neutrons.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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  25. #25
    Master of useless knowledge Senior Member Kitten Shooting Champion, Eskiv Champion Ironside's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    All you mention are molecules, atoms have only tree building stones.
    I'll run the basics for you. You know some of it, but have other things mixed up.

    That's 3 types of building stones for normal matter. Protons, neutrons and electrons.

    Protons are positivly charged and determines the element, like Pape pointed out.

    Neutrons are neutrally charged and keeps the protons together in the atom core. Their number also decides the isotope, which have slighty different properties. The biggest influence has to do with stability, which causes that some isotopes are radioactive. For example C14 (Carbon-14) is radioactive, while C12 and C13 are stable.

    Electrons are negativly charged and are balancing protons, so they are the same number in atomic form. Electrons moves very easily though, creating ions, atoms and molecules that are having a charge.

    Molecules are when 2 or more (up to many, many more) of atoms are bound together to make a specific unit. Those molecules does in turn interact with eachother, forming everything we see, since all molecules by themselves are very, very small.
    We are all aware that the senses can be deceived, the eyes fooled. But how can we be sure our senses are not being deceived at any particular time, or even all the time? Might I just be a brain in a tank somewhere, tricked all my life into believing in the events of this world by some insane computer? And does my life gain or lose meaning based on my reaction to such solipsism?

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  26. #26
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio View Post
    The number of protons determine the element. Protons are electrically positive.

    If there are more or less electrons then protons it is an ion. Typically it is less when the atom is heated and it 'sweats off' an electron. Electrons are electrically negative.

    Neutrons are electricall neutral. An element can have multiple isotopes for instance Carbon 12 and Carbon 14.
    The element Carbon has 6 protons. Carbon-12 is 6 protons and 6 neutrons. Carbon-14 is 6 protons and 8 neutrons.
    Thanks, I knew about the electrical stuff but wasn't sure about the isotopes, makes sense though.
    What I was thinking about regarding the ions were probably anions and cations. I just remembered there were different names depending on whether they're positive or negative.


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  27. #27

    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Chemistry is that special magic that allows boys and girls to get together, and after they get along well enough, they can make more boys and girls. When that special magic fails, some people resort to

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    Witchcraft.
    "The good man is the man who, no matter how morally unworthy he has been, is moving to become better."
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  28. #28
    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Chemistry, only useful for making Crystal Meth.

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  29. #29
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Quote Originally Posted by Ironside View Post
    I'll run the basics for you. You know some of it, but have other things mixed up.

    That's 3 types of building stones for normal matter. Protons, neutrons and electrons.

    Protons are positivly charged and determines the element, like Pape pointed out.

    Neutrons are neutrally charged and keeps the protons together in the atom core. Their number also decides the isotope, which have slighty different properties. The biggest influence has to do with stability, which causes that some isotopes are radioactive. For example C14 (Carbon-14) is radioactive, while C12 and C13 are stable.

    Electrons are negativly charged and are balancing protons, so they are the same number in atomic form. Electrons moves very easily though, creating ions, atoms and molecules that are having a charge.

    Molecules are when 2 or more (up to many, many more) of atoms are bound together to make a specific unit. Those molecules does in turn interact with eachother, forming everything we see, since all molecules by themselves are very, very small.
    That much I know, i made a mistake when I said protons have no mass, a pretty stupid one as neutrons would have no other way to keep a hold of them. Cancelled out I guess

  30. #30
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: I don't understand Chemistry

    Not stupid at all. Most science is really poorly taught at school. Meaning most kids don't have a chance of understanding it.

    Doesn't help that we pay science teachers so poorly that they have plenty of other higher paying options.

    I was lucky and had some of the better ones as teachers. One of the next generation student teachers we had to teach the periodic table to them in chemistry class. The new set had plenty of biology science teachers but not enough chemistry teachers.

    Can't expect students to learn what their teachers don't know.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

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