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Thread: European Parliament Exposed

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    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default European Parliament Exposed

    These are a few days old already, but apparently, they're now available with subtitles:

    Part I:



    Part II:




    4 years ago, there was something similar from a German newssite. Guess that 4 years of crisis didn't change the mentality of our glorious European leaders.

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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Those few thousand Euros won't save us.

    Also if they don't pay enough, all the talent will wander off to the private sector and then the politicians will only be the worst people we can find.


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    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    I did wonder where all the competence went, all the people who could have become good politicians without being utter bastards have gone to greener pastures.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


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    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Those few thousand Euros won't save us.

    Also if they don't pay enough, all the talent will wander off to the private sector and then the politicians will only be the worst people we can find.
    I sincerely hope this is one of those jokes I don't get.

    The idea that anyone, besides those filling their pockets themselves, can defend this sort of behaviour is absurd.

    What has become of us Europeans if we do not only stay apathic when confronted with this, but also start to actively defend the people robbing us?
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    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    I did wonder where all the competence went, all the people who could have become good politicians without being utter bastards have gone to greener pastures.
    Ask our Greek or Spanish unemployed friends what they think about the competence of our Eurocrats and their accomplice, the IMF.
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    Moderator Moderator Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Andres View Post
    I sincerely hope this is one of those jokes I don't get.

    The idea that anyone, besides those filling their pockets themselves, can defend this sort of behaviour is absurd.

    What has become of us Europeans if we do not only stay apathic when confronted with this, but also start to actively defend the people robbing us?
    They sound as if they are behaving just like the US Congress.


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    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Andres View Post
    Ask our Greek or Spanish unemployed friends what they think about the competence of our Eurocrats and their accomplice, the IMF.
    Er... I can only assume from the tone of the post taht you think I have a high opinion of Eurocrats. I most certainly dont.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Geenstijl for the win as usual

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    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    They sound as if they are behaving just like the US Congress.
    And how do US citizens react to that? They just think it's all ok? Or you protest, but nothing really happens?

    Except for Husar here today, I haven't met a single person who wasn't fuming with anger after seeing this. Yet, nothing happens about it.

    What a joke, isn't it? Freedom of press, freedom of expression and all that. Those bastards were exposed 4 years ago already and... nothing happened about it. It just continued.

    While the European ship continues to sink, those bastards have no shame at all to continue what they're doing.

    The only difference between us and a dictatorship, is that we are allowed to whine in public.


    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    Er... I can only assume from the tone of the post taht you think I have a high opinion of Eurocrats. I most certainly dont.
    Then I misunderstood your post. Sorry
    Last edited by Andres; 07-01-2013 at 14:44.
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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    That German booksalesman who is so good after the war's reaction is very telling, naturally a Godwin. It gets a lot creepier, the EU is looking to banning journalists who don't uphold the EU's values. I don't think Tom Staal is invited at the next press-conference. The international-socialism has no shame
    Last edited by Fragony; 07-01-2013 at 15:05.

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    Moderator Moderator Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Andres View Post
    And how do US citizens react to that? They just think it's all ok? Or you protest, but nothing really happens?

    Except for Husar here today, I haven't met a single person who wasn't fuming with anger after seeing this. Yet, nothing happens about it.

    What a joke, isn't it? Freedom of press, freedom of expression and all that. Those bastards were exposed 4 years ago already and... nothing happened about it. It just continued.

    While the European ship continues to sink, those bastards have no shame at all to continue what they're doing.

    The only difference between us and a dictatorship, is that we are allowed to whine in public.
    Well, their media keeps them pacified with other stories and polarized thinking it is all the other political party’s fault, so most sheepole don’t care.

    If mainstream news is not upset, no one notices. Disgusting!

    And so much for freedom of the press, they just keep the scoundrels in office.


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    The Red-titled Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Andres View Post
    I sincerely hope this is one of those jokes I don't get.
    It is a common argument in regards to public service jobs that the high salaries and perks are to ensure that people don't leave for the public sector where they can apparently make far more. In reality, we call this argument "male-cow manure".
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    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    Well, their media keeps them pacified with other stories and polarized thinking it is all the other political party’s fault, so most sheepole don’t care.

    If mainstream news is not upset, no one notices. Disgusting!

    And so much for freedom of the press, they just keep the scoundrels in office.
    And in Euro land, we have our own polarized thinking.

    I don't know how it goes in other countries, but here they keep the plebs busy by making them blame:
    - the, of course lazy, immigrants;
    - the, of course lazy, unemployed;
    - the, of course lazy, civil servants;
    - the babyboom generation that wasted everything;
    - the youth who doesn't want to work anymore;
    - etc.



    Quote Originally Posted by Tiaexz View Post
    It is a common argument in regards to public service jobs that the high salaries and perks are to ensure that people don't leave for the public sector where they can apparently make far more. In reality, we call this argument "male-cow manure".
    Of course it's "male-cow manure". Not only is it questionable that these people could earn more if they actually had to work a normal job for a living. There's also the question if it is ok and defendable that some CEO fill his pockets with billions every year, getting bonuses for firing employees who actually need their salary to live.

    "Hey, but that guy over there could earn even more in the private sector!"

    Why yes, being the professional crook he is, he most certainly is capable of filling his pockets somewhere else. What was the point of the argument?
    Last edited by Andres; 07-01-2013 at 15:47.
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    What joke?

    It's not like we don't have lobbying but the US congressmen and senators are even deeper in the pockets of big business than our guys.
    I'd rather have overpaid people who serve the people 50% than underpaid ones who serve big business 100%.

    The whole Euro crisis thing wasn't caused by MEPs, it was caused by the directly and democratically elected local politicians who also got a say in certain EU matters. The MEPs on the other hand keep representing European and general human interests much stronger than any of the local governments do, despite all the naysaying that's going on.

    I could just as well make a positive report about the integrity and moral stability of our politicians because they don't raise their own pay by 100% every week. There used to be a time when politics were only viable for the rich because only they earned enough to do the whole (then unpaid) politician thing as a hobby, do you want to return to something similar to this?

    If you want something done well, you have to throw more money at it because we still have a capitalist system. That means if you think they're not doing a good job, we aren't paying them enough yet. Unless you want communism, but even there the politicians had more luxury than anyone else. In monarchy it's even worse, name a system where politicians don't get a lot of money and don't ruin the country through enormous corruption.


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    Moderator Moderator Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    It doesn’t matter what you pay them, they will still be in the pocket of big business 100% of the time. The only thing the people get is the tab for salaries and expenses.

    If you think they are representing you then either you are in big business or you have not researched the facts to the fullest extent to see who actually benefits from the laws.

    Appearances can be deceiving.


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    Horse Archer Senior Member Sarmatian's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Andres View Post
    I sincerely hope this is one of those jokes I don't get.

    The idea that anyone, besides those filling their pockets themselves, can defend this sort of behaviour is absurd.

    What has become of us Europeans if we do not only stay apathic when confronted with this, but also start to actively defend the people robbing us?
    Well, a lot depends how you look at the issue.

    If you're trying to say MEPs are behaving irresponsibly and we should apply pressure on them to stop that, I agree fully.

    If you're trying to say: OMG, this is outrageous, dismantle EU this instant!!! - then we don't agree.

    And, of course, there's the other issue that national parliaments function pretty much on the same principle...

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    The Red-titled Forum Administrator Beskar's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Problem with elected politicians is that it makes it very difficult to 'fire them'. Only way to solve it would be to employ stringent rules on the behaviour and activities of MEP's and have an overseeing body giving them the boot. Otherwise, there is simply no way to get rid of them due to any perceived dismissal as being a political ploy by one side or another.

    This is done by attendance for meetings and discussions being compulsory. Failures to turn up or 'disappearing acts' end up with that MEP losing their seat.
    Eliminating the majority of expenses and cutting the pay in half.

    Ultimately, this will end up breeding a ground of people who do the job for more or less the better reasons than the greedy money grabbers, as those money grabbers would 'profit' more working elsewhere.
    Last edited by Beskar; 07-01-2013 at 17:41.
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    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    it could also open the way for more corruption.

    We do not sow.

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    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    what do ye expect MEP's are a joke there "parliament " is a joke an there generally failed national politicians or someone who wants take it easy for a few years after getting knifed in party squables
    Last edited by gaelic cowboy; 07-01-2013 at 23:05.
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    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    There used to be a time when politics were only viable for the rich because only they earned enough to do the whole (then unpaid) politician thing as a hobby, do you want to return to something similar to this?
    Shockingly, it was those men who extended the franchise so you could vote, but you'd never vote for them.

    Which suggests that they were wrong to believe extending the franchise would improve democracy.

    As for a joke? The whole EU is a joke, and so is the US Congress. So was the Russian Empire, and the Roman Empire.... every large state is a big joke about a city that rules over people that none of the rulers ever meet.

    Dissolve the EU says I - ban all Eurocrats from holding Office for life, start again.
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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Ladies&gentlemen, start your lmaorofl http://www.geenstijl.nl/archives/ima...dorf12801.html

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    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Is that real?

    If so, then I must say that his English is horrible.

    I guess that throwing money isn't enough to ensure capable people enter parliament...
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    Sovereign Oppressor Member TIE Fighter Shooter Champion, Turkey Shoot Champion, Juggler Champion Kralizec's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Which part of this is new or groundbreaking?

    The video makes a lot of troulbe of stuff that is commonplace in national parliaments as well. Attendence for example: the Commons chamber of the UK has only enough sitting space for about a quarter of its members. When it was rebuilt after burning down in WW2, Churchill purpusefully kept the small size because the debates and votes would look more important if the room was full and crowded. This is one reason why the government and opposition parties of the UK use pairing agreements where an equal number of their own voting cattle are excused from attending.

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    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    If you want something done well, you have to throw more money at it because we still have a capitalist system. That means if you think they're not doing a good job, we aren't paying them enough yet. Unless you want communism, but even there the politicians had more luxury than anyone else. In monarchy it's even worse, name a system where politicians don't get a lot of money and don't ruin the country through enormous corruption.
    This must be one of the most nonsensical things I've ever read on these boards.

    Paying a lot of money is a guarantee for quality? Do you really believe that?

    How about adding accountability and responsiblity? Because if you throw money at people but never really punish them if they up, then you won't get much quality. You'll get people grabbing every cent they can get, without shame, and who will disappear once the hits the fan. To come back, once the dust has settled, to grab even more euros. And some will continue to grab, no matter what, since nobody is touching them anyway. As you can see in those movies I posted. How many more do you need to see before you'll open your eyes? How many more until your outrage-o-meter will go up?

    Money was been thrown at top bankers, see where that got us.

    What sort of propaganda spewing indoctrination machine did this to you?
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    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Andres View Post
    Is that real?

    If so, then I must say that his English is horrible.

    I guess that throwing money isn't enough to ensure capable people enter parliament...
    Not sure if it's real, but Geenstijl is usually very reliable. I don't know how they do it but they are always right on top of everything a whole lot faster. Their style isn't apreciated by everyone but they sure do a good job of bringing news a lot faster. A lot of Flemmish come there as well, if you have an incredibly juvenile sense of humour you will love it.
    Last edited by Fragony; 07-02-2013 at 09:47.

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    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec View Post
    Which part of this is new or groundbreaking?

    The video makes a lot of troulbe of stuff that is commonplace in national parliaments as well. Attendence for example: the Commons chamber of the UK has only enough sitting space for about a quarter of its members. When it was rebuilt after burning down in WW2, Churchill purpusefully kept the small size because the debates and votes would look more important if the room was full and crowded. This is one reason why the government and opposition parties of the UK use pairing agreements where an equal number of their own voting cattle are excused from attending.
    What fascinates me, is that we keep putting up with it. Why do we accept this? Why should we accept this?

    If we all keep going "you can't do anything about it, you have to accept this", then yeah, nothing will ever change indeed.

    And when all goes well and most people are employed, it's not dangerous, but when the continent is plunged into crisis, its' southern members into poverty, then this becomes dangerous.

    Then you'll either get protests that get out of hand, or a regime in which such videos and the journalists who make them will disappear to be replaced with propaganda. And before you know it, you'll find yourself living in a dictatorship.

    Look at that letter written by Mister Ransdorf. What he asks is for those journalists to be kept away out of the building. What's the next step?
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    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Not sure if it's real, but Geenstijl is usually very reliable. I don't know how they do it but they are always right on top of everything a whole lot faster. Their style isn't apreciated by everyone but they sure do a good job of bringing news a lot faster. A lot of Flemmish come there as well, if you have an incredibly juvenile sense of humour you will love it.
    Kinda wish they did a english language version.
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    Liar and Trickster Senior Member Andres's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarmatian View Post
    Well, a lot depends how you look at the issue.

    If you're trying to say MEPs are behaving irresponsibly and we should apply pressure on them to stop that, I agree fully.

    If you're trying to say: OMG, this is outrageous, dismantle EU this instant!!! - then we don't agree.

    And, of course, there's the other issue that national parliaments function pretty much on the same principle...
    The basic ideas behidn the EU are ok, it doesn't need to be dismantled. But the excesses need to stop asap. The longer it takes before you do anything about it, the worse it will get and the more difficult/impossible it'll get to do something about it in a more or less civilised way.

    Pressure to stop it? It's not enough to just stop it. The excesses that already happened, shouldn't go unpunished. Each and every member of Parliament who asked money for expenses, should send in justifications. No justifications, then they need to pay back every euro they ever received + a fine of 10 times that amount. Or 1.000 times, if that's what's needed to put them into extreme poverty.

    If you shamelessly grab money like that in an age where people in the EU have lost everything and live in poverty, depending on humanitarian aid to survive, then no punishment can be harsh enough for you. The people who cannot justify their behaviour need to be put into a position that they need humanitarian aid to survive as well. They need to be left to rot for a few years, to get the message accross.

    And yes, national and local politicians do the same. But that's not exactly a justification for the European money grabbers, now is it? That only means that we'll need to take action in our own countries as well.
    Last edited by Andres; 07-02-2013 at 10:00.
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    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisherking View Post
    It doesn’t matter what you pay them, they will still be in the pocket of big business 100% of the time. The only thing the people get is the tab for salaries and expenses.

    If you think they are representing you then either you are in big business or you have not researched the facts to the fullest extent to see who actually benefits from the laws.
    No, you're wrong. If you think that is the case then you are stuck in US politics and simply haven't studied Europe well enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    Shockingly, it was those men who extended the franchise so you could vote, but you'd never vote for them.

    Which suggests that they were wrong to believe extending the franchise would improve democracy.
    Guess that was horribly naive of them, just how it's horribly naive for a poor guy to trust a rich guy.
    But just because you want Donald Trump for PM there's no reason to assume I would never vote for a rich guy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    As for a joke? The whole EU is a joke, and so is the US Congress. So was the Russian Empire, and the Roman Empire.... every large state is a big joke about a city that rules over people that none of the rulers ever meet.

    Dissolve the EU says I - ban all Eurocrats from holding Office for life, start again.
    Every city government is already a joke, tribes and families are what evolution made us capable of working with, remember the monkeysphere, about 130 people.
    To balance things, companies need to be cut to the same size, no inter-tribal companies, just trade.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec View Post
    Which part of this is new or groundbreaking?

    The video makes a lot of troulbe of stuff that is commonplace in national parliaments as well. Attendence for example: the Commons chamber of the UK has only enough sitting space for about a quarter of its members. When it was rebuilt after burning down in WW2, Churchill purpusefully kept the small size because the debates and votes would look more important if the room was full and crowded. This is one reason why the government and opposition parties of the UK use pairing agreements where an equal number of their own voting cattle are excused from attending.
    Exactly, we need to disband cities. Düsseldorf just had a scandal where officials accepted presents, here in Essen we have outrage about the closing of public bathes because they're supposedly too expensive. The local level is really no better.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andres View Post
    This must be one of the most nonsensical things I've ever read on these boards.
    Thanks, I'm aiming for a majority share in that category.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andres View Post
    Paying a lot of money is a guarantee for quality? Do you really believe that?
    I didn't mention a guarantee but cheap clothes are made by child labor, you pay more to end this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andres View Post
    How about adding accountability and responsiblity? Because if you throw money at people but never really punish them if they up, then you won't get much quality. You'll get people grabbing every cent they can get, without shame, and who will disappear once the hits the fan. To come back, once the dust has settled, to grab even more euros. And some will continue to grab, no matter what, since nobody is touching them anyway. As you can see in those movies I posted. How many more do you need to see before you'll open your eyes? How many more until your outrage-o-meter will go up?

    Money was been thrown at top bankers, see where that got us.

    What sort of propaganda spewing indoctrination machine did this to you?
    That's horribly naive, we live in capitalism. You control literally everything with money. Money = incentive and money = power.
    That means two things, first of all accountability is something the powerful (i.e. the rich) impose on the less powerful, not the other way around. The same is true for responsibility, it's a one-way street. People high up get paid more because they are responsible until something bad happens and from there on they have no responsibility whatsoever.

    And it makes no sense to fight this, if you want to escape you have to live the dream and become rich yourself or move to another country where value other than that of money still counts for something. It's not just the rich who impose this, it's all layers of society, it's the small guy who wants to look down on the even smaller one and the middle class guy who wants to look down on the poorer ones, they all contribute to this.

    And that's why noone is doing anything against this system, because they all just think about themselves and how they can improve their own situation relative to everyone else. And people wonder where the 50% divorce rate comes from when partnership is all about what benefits *I* can get from it...

    Really, the MEPs are not a problem, they're a chance, a chance to become a bigger collective of egoists than the USA and get more shiny than them, it's in all our cumulative interests, some people are just too stuck in irrational nationalism and idealism to realize this.


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  30. #30
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: European Parliament Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralizec View Post
    Which part of this is new or groundbreaking?

    The video makes a lot of troulbe of stuff that is commonplace in national parliaments as well. Attendence for example: the Commons chamber of the UK has only enough sitting space for about a quarter of its members. When it was rebuilt after burning down in WW2, Churchill purpusefully kept the small size because the debates and votes would look more important if the room was full and crowded. This is one reason why the government and opposition parties of the UK use pairing agreements where an equal number of their own voting cattle are excused from attending.
    That's incorrect - the Commons chamber can comfortably seat about 600, the number of MP's is 650. After WWII the Commons chamber was reconstructed (including the Speaker's chair) as a sign of continuity. The reason for the space allocation in the 19th Century was to make a full sitting uncomfortable, not to discourage attendance but because the Commons are not supposed to be comfortable, that's what they have padded benches, and not desks with microphones as in the US or Australia.

    I'd like you to explain these "pairing" arrangement, because I've never heard of them - if you're talking about the shape of the chamber, it's based on the Chapel parliament used to sit in. If you're talking about the arrangement of having a Loyal Opposition and a shadow cabinet, I don't feel I need to defend the practice.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


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