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Thread: Egypt

  1. #1
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Egypt

    Only total idiots believed this was an Arab-spring. Leftist intellectualoco's, wrong as usual. No you pipesmoking beardrubbers who know, for a fact, that the muslim brotherhood is moderate. The muslim-brotherhood isn't all that moderate, yes they are indeed pretty extreme, who would have thought. Army is kinda fed up with Morsi and threatens to take things over, and I think they are pretty serious about it. Arab spring, lol, back to normal. Much better. Shoot the rape-squads first for me please. Take your country back from this monster, good luck and greets from the Netherlands mia muca's

  2. #2
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    They sound pretty serious to me, they are ready to 'sacrifice their blood'. Quite a statement Morsi is done for, army is like a sword of Domaclus for any Egyptian ruler, they are the real power and they are very fed up with things if they put it like that. Good news for the normal Egyptians who only want to to have to worry about what's for dinner. Go army.

    Oh and EU who was funding the muslim brotherhood, screw you

  3. #3
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    Last time I checked, average Egyptians were still outraged that the Army had yet to meet many of the peoples' demands for reparations in regards to torture, illegal detention, that sort of thing.
    Egypt is kinda behind on a whole lot more, having an islamist government kinda beats having to worry about that. It will still not be very nice but but this Morsi is worse. Complete idiot with a religion to boot

  4. #4
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    There seems to be something of a pattern emerging in these Middle-Eastern conflicts. On the one hand you have this secular regime/ex-regime and its backers in the army with a big history of all sort of human right abuses, and that was propped up by the US or various colonial powers. Then on the other hand you have what was traditionally the opposition, which tends to express its grievances in Islamist terms. I think these trends can be seem in Turkey, Syria and Egypt.

    I wouldn't be too enthusiastic about what the army is doing here. I think power-sharing would be the best option to bring some stability, hopefully with Morsi seeing out his term. He was democratically elected after all - I hardly think that the West backing a secular military in a coup against an elected ruler is the best option.

    I realise there is the conflict between the fact he is democratically elected, and the reality that some of his more religious-based policies are not in the spirit of a liberal democracy. But Egypt evidently still has a very socially conservative majority, and that's something we have to appreciate. Like I said in the Turkey and Iran threads - these young, secular, Westernised types might be very vocal since they have access to social media etc, but at the end of the day they are a small minority that are hardly representative of their societies. The goat-herders have to have a voice as well, or else they will look for one through other means.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

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    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    So, looks like MoMo's presidency is done for.

    *plays the world's smallest violin*
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

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  6. #6
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    I've said it before, I'll say it again:

    Anybody who thinks they know where a revolution is going—much less where it will end up—is a fool.

    -edit-

    Here's a pretty good liveblog for those who have the interest and time.
    Last edited by Lemur; 07-03-2013 at 19:12.
    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them ... well, I have others." — Groucho Marx

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    One of the Undutchables Member The Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Fragony View Post
    Only total idiots believed this was an Arab-spring. Leftist intellectualoco's, wrong as usual. No you pipesmoking beardrubbers who know, for a fact, that the muslim brotherhood is moderate. The muslim-brotherhood isn't all that moderate, yes they are indeed pretty extreme, who would have thought. Army is kinda fed up with Morsi and threatens to take things over, and I think they are pretty serious about it. Arab spring, lol, back to normal. Much better. Shoot the rape-squads first for me please. Take your country back from this monster, good luck and greets from the Netherlands mia muca's
    Tell us all-knowing, all-wise, Frag the Omniscient, tell us!

    We do not sow.

  8. #8
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    yay for more gang rapes
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

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    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Wow, what a shocker - Fragony has completely misunderstood why those intellectuals called it the Arab spring.

    The revolution has begun eating its first children. Can't say I object to it, but hopefully they'll stop before they go completely France.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    It's happened.

    "The army is currently involved in a show of force, fanning out across Cairo and taking control of the capital, BBC correspondent Quentin Sommerville reports.

    He described seeing eight armoured personnel carriers heading for Cairo University in Giza, where one of the main pro-Morsi demonstrations was being held."


    EDIT:

    Far too early days to know exactly what happened, but I think this is the last thing Egypt needs:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-23161075

    "Clashes broke out at rival protests across Egypt on Tuesday night, with at least 16 pro-Morsi protesters killed at a demonstration at Cairo University."

    Cairo University being where the above article just said the army were headed. If all the dead are indeed on one side, that looks more like an atrocity than a combat situation.
    Last edited by Rhyfelwyr; 07-03-2013 at 21:44.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    The Army has played it's cards very well an Morsi has played them badly, they can now safely remove him to pick a new leader like they did before with Morsi himself. (yes he won an election but only because he was allowed to)

    The Army has always being the main force and any attempt to play silly buggers with them will fail.
    Last edited by gaelic cowboy; 07-03-2013 at 22:00.
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    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    As always it will be interesting to see how this develops because there is absolutely no reason for any outsiders to get involved.........right​?
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.
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    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    As always it will be interesting to see how this develops because there is absolutely no reason for any outsiders to get involved.........right​?

    no there is no need it will be all over by the morning.

    the interim government will declare fresh elections and the muslim brotherhood even if it wins will not cross the Army again.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

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    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    no there is no need it will be all over by the morning.

    the interim government will declare fresh elections and the muslim brotherhood even if it wins will not cross the Army again.
    Revolutions don't end suddenly. There is a long process of compromise and democracy or a long process of extermination.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name View Post
    Revolutions don't end suddenly. There is a long process of compromise and democracy or a long process of extermination.

    there was no revolution in eygpt all that happened was the army deposed a useless administrator
    Last edited by gaelic cowboy; 07-03-2013 at 22:43.
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    Ni dieu ni maître! Senior Member a completely inoffensive name's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    there was no revolution in eygpt all that happened was the army deposed a useless administrator
    Bit more complex than that, you have to admit.
    In all these papers we see a love of honest work, an aversion to shams, a caution in the enunciation of conclusions, a distrust of rash generalizations and speculations based on uncertain premises. He was never anxious to add one more guess on doubtful matters in the hope of hitting the truth, or what might pass as such for a time, but was always ready to take infinite pains in the most careful testing of every theory. With these qualities was united a modesty which forbade the pushing of his own claims and desired no reputation except the unsought tribute of competent judges.
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Bit more complex than that, you have to admit.
    Wonder what Erdogan makes of all this.

    And Thein Sein...
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  18. #18
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    As one commentator pointed out, this may well lead to reprisals from the hardline Islamists. So we might just go back to the situation under Muburak, where a secular military-backed regime is in constant conflict with radical Jihadis, and the majority of Egyptian people feel unrepresented.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    As one commentator pointed out, this may well lead to reprisals from the hardline Islamists. So we might just go back to the situation under Muburak, where a secular military-backed regime is in constant conflict with radical Jihadis, and the majority of Egyptian people feel unrepresented.

    an that will be fine with the army as they can claim to be defending eygpt.

    If the brothers win the second election the army can still claim credit for forcing them to listen to the "people"

    It's always been about the Army it has never been about secular versus islamist
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

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  20. #20
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    an that will be fine with the army as they can claim to be defending eygpt.

    If the brothers win the second election the army can still claim credit for forcing them to listen to the "people"
    Right, but I'm speaking out of concern for the Egyptian people, not the interests of the Army. I'm saying that what is happening is not ideal. I'm not saying that it is not a reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    It's always been about the Army it has never been about secular versus islamist
    I think it is precisely because a secular military dominates the scene that the opposition expresses itself in Islamist terms.

    Consider this - already in the Syria thread many are saying that it is our failure to bolster a secular Free Syrian Army that has led to the Jihadis becoming the main voice of opposition and taking control of the Rebel cause. I do not want to see a repeat of this trend in Egypt.*

    * Not that I am advocating intervention either. I simply hope that a situation is not created where people have to turn to the radicals to get a voice.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  21. #21
    Formerly Wigferth Ironwall Senior Member Philippus Flavius Homovallumus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    I'm a bit more optimistic that that - the army needs to play it's hand gently.

    The Generals can stay in place, be heroes of the people, or they can play silly buggers with the people. They've seen how that worked out in Libya, and how it's worked out on Syria.

    Not especially well.
    "If it wears trousers generally I don't pay attention."


  22. #22
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla View Post
    I'm a bit more optimistic that that - the army needs to play it's hand gently.

    The Generals can stay in place, be heroes of the people, or they can play silly buggers with the people. They've seen how that worked out in Libya, and how it's worked out on Syria.

    Not especially well.
    The army has and is playing it gently and there playing it very well.

    The real reason Morsi is gone is because he has failed in his duty to provide civilian legitmacy to the generals. (the real power in eygpt)
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
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  23. #23

    Default Re: Egypt

    I think it is precisely because a secular military dominates the scene that the opposition expresses itself in Islamist terms.
    I think that it's simply the character of the populations in those areas. Without a specially-advantaged secular opposition, all prospective representatives would be Islamists - they just wouldn't specially advertise themselves as such. Though I do suppose that without "a specially-advantaged secular opposition, the region just might get past its excessive religiosity more quickly and naturally than otherwise?
    Vitiate Man.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    I think it is precisely because a secular military dominates the scene that the opposition expresses itself in Islamist terms.
    The Army felt it could deal with Morsi but all he has done is make things worse on all fronts, essentially the Army has adopted the secular protest movement to remove Morsi. That does not mean the army wont deal with the Brotherhood again, I suspect Morsi's mates are chomping at the bit to seat themselves in his presidential mercedes.


    Consider this - already in the Syria thread many are saying that it is our failure to bolster a secular Free Syrian Army that has led to the Jihadis becoming the main voice of opposition and taking control of the Rebel cause. I do not want to see a repeat of this trend in Egypt.*

    * Not that I am advocating intervention either. I simply hope that a situation is not created where people have to turn to the radicals to get a voice.
    the only thing linking eygpt an syria is the fact there two muslim countries
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
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  25. #25
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    I think that it's simply the character of the populations in those areas. Without a specially-advantaged secular opposition, all prospective representatives would be Islamists - they just wouldn't specially advertise themselves as such. Though I do suppose that without "a specially-advantaged secular opposition, the region just might get past its excessive religiosity more quickly and naturally than otherwise?
    I think there is a world of difference between socially conservative Islam on the one hand, and the radical ideology of global Islamism on the other. I think without the secular opposition, parties might have shared some socially conservative policies, but there would be no reason for any to adopt radical Islamist policies. But because of the oppression of a secular regime over the past few decades, many moderate Muslims have turned to the radicals as their outlet for expressing their grievances.

    The army kicking Morsi out when he was fairly elected is only going to exacerbate this.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Egypt

    I think there is a world of difference between socially conservative Islam on the one hand, and the radical ideology of global Islamism on the other.
    Well, by Islamism we don't necessarily mean 'fundamentalism' or 'Salafism' or anything like that.
    Vitiate Man.

  27. #27
    Senior Member Senior Member gaelic cowboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr View Post
    I think there is a world of difference between socially conservative Islam on the one hand, and the radical ideology of global Islamism on the other. I think without the secular opposition, parties might have shared some socially conservative policies, but there would be no reason for any to adopt radical Islamist policies. But because of the oppression of a secular regime over the past few decades, many moderate Muslims have turned to the radicals as their outlet for expressing their grievances.

    The army kicking Morsi out when he was fairly elected is only going to exacerbate this.
    that may be so but when he rammed the constitution through that time he was walking on thin ice from that day on.

    If he had turned the economy round and if he hadnt picked social issues as his big thing he might still be president.
    They slew him with poison afaid to meet him with the steel
    a gallant son of eireann was Owen Roe o'Neill.

    Internet is a bad place for info Gaelic Cowboy

  28. #28
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    The Army felt it could deal with Morsi but all he has done is make things worse on all fronts, essentially the Army has adopted the secular protest movement to remove Morsi. That does not mean the army wont deal with the Brotherhood again, I suspect Morsi's mates are chomping at the bit to seat themselves in his presidential mercedes.
    Perhaps, but I was pointing out the historic relationship between Islamism and opposition to the Army.

    Quote Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy View Post
    the only thing linking eygpt an syria is the fact there two muslim countries
    I think that's a pretty bold statement to make.

    Let's not forget, Egypt and Syria were a few decades ago one nation as the United Arab Republic, which is still actually the official name for Egypt today.

    Besides being two Arab, Sunni-majority countries in the Middle-East, they have both very recently undergone revolutions where oppressive regimes lasting decades have been cast out. They both have strong secular militaries with a history of oppressing their people. They both have an Islamist-dominated opposition movement. They both have ethnic/religious minorities that back the old secular order for their safety but have since been scapegoated for it amid the turmoil. They are both ex-colonies with strong Ba'athist and socialist traditions.

    Surely they have a lot in common?
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  29. #29
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    Well, by Islamism we don't necessarily mean 'fundamentalism' or 'Salafism' or anything like that.
    Maybe not, but I think Islamism does suggest a very politically-aggressive sort of Islam. I think the average Muslim would just want a few backwards policies. Just to make sure nobody frightens the horses sort of thing. It becomes Islamist when it gets really pervasive, when it is less about social norms and more about ideology.

    EDIT: I have another reply at the end of the last page, just in case it was missed.
    Last edited by Rhyfelwyr; 07-04-2013 at 00:20.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

  30. #30
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Egypt

    Quote Originally Posted by Montmorency View Post
    I think that it's simply the character of the populations in those areas. Without a specially-advantaged secular opposition, all prospective representatives would be Islamists - they just wouldn't specially advertise themselves as such.
    Wow.

    In just two sentences, you managed to ignore the zillion different communist, socialist and nationalist political groups or revolutionaries who dominated the post-WW2 years. And such groups succeeded in gaining power in plenty of countries in that region. The baathists, the communists in Iran, the PKK, Gaffy and so on and so on. None of them religious, never mind islamist. Few of them had much outside support or special advantages. Indeed, seeing as many of them were each others mortal enemies, you could say they were heavily disadvantaged. The revolution in Iran was the first time a group like the commies(who were anti-religious hardliners) failed to gain control of a revolution in "that region". Heck, even the Shah in Afghanistan faced largely atheist opposition.

    You could claim it's the times, but no way can you make the claim that it's the region.
    Last edited by HoreTore; 07-04-2013 at 00:26.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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