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Thread: The Roman Empire as a synthesis

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    Default Re: The Roman Empire as a synthesis

    Quote Originally Posted by Ca Putt View Post
    I think you can neither free (european)Christianity or the Romans of the blame for the bad things the other did. In the same way Rome changed christianity Christianity changed rome. But I don't think we should discuss the quality of Christianity here, we can judge the romans, there all dead, we can't do the same with the Christians of which there are quite a lot, without provoking a flamewar.

    Short of the time to write something comprehensive, I'll just toss in the Reichsidee in here. Or rather the necessity of Empires. Is it really neccessary that "we" subdue, massacrate, assimilate, defeat... other peoples and rule them from one central point? The (classical)Greeks and the Swiss lived/live pretty well without an empire.
    A very good question, and one of the legacies of Rome (the Imperial ideal - 'civilising' the savages in spite of themselves - Imperial apologia). I read a book, a while ago - and the name of it escapes me, sorry - which examined the effect of increasing power by Athens on local (Attica) rural and craft communities. It showed quite convincingly that these communities were progressively impoverished through expansion. We see the same thing happened with Rome, with the development of Latifundia and the decline of small-hold farmers. Empires drive massive wealth for an elite, always at the cost of many, many other human beings.

    As for the Church. I'm not attacking Christianity or Christians but the political institution of the Roman church(the Roman church as a political power). The views held by that church were, I would argue, at great variance with the views of Christians today - in the same way that most Christians would be appalled by the likes of the Borgias et al - they were products of the church machinery, and a clue that all was not as Christian as it could have been.

    I'm not sure how feudalism can be constructed on the basis of all men being equal; and that was certainly not a concept held dear by the early, expansionist machinery of the church. their job was to bolster kingly power (through the provision of 'genealogies' and spreading the idea of 'rightful' rule) - that institution had a very cosy relationship with the early royalty and nobility - in fact it was generally an extension of them. That institution used the church to proclaim hell and damnation on those not aligned with the 'natural order'. As I said, whatever the beginnings of Christianity (and I should add, whatever Christianity might be now) the early church was not reflective of that, but was an extension of Patrician Rome.
    Last edited by Gaius Sempronius Gracchus; 07-09-2013 at 18:36.

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