Zimmerman not guilty.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I would be interested to see if there were any way Obama could address race without getting dinged for race-baiting by the Fox/Drudge/NewsMax crowd.

From what I've seen of the transcripts, I'm missing the whole LET'S HATE ON WHITEY thing that you all seem to be hearing. Sample:

And for those who resist that idea that we should think about something like these “stand your ground” laws, I’d just ask people to consider, if Trayvon Martin was of age and armed, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk? And do we actually think that he would have been justified in shooting Mr. Zimmerman who had followed him in a car because he felt threatened? And if the answer to that question is at least ambiguous, then it seems to me that we might want to examine those kinds of laws.

Sounds like CinC is saying that if Martin had a gun, he should have shot Zimmerman rather than punching him, according to Florida Law.

Given that Obama is, irrc, a Harvard educated Lawyer, I think he's allowed an opinion on that.

I also think he's correct - given that a Texan once shot a Scot for urinating on his lawn and nothing happened.

Edit: rvg is Assyrian - so he's less white than Zimmerman, sorry Lemur.

[Xiahou]

Sounds like CinC is saying that if Martin had a gun, he should have shot Zimmerman rather than punching him, according to Florida Law.

If Zimmerman hadn't been beaten bloody, claiming self-defense would have been a lot more challenging.
If Martin shot Zimmerman just for following him, without a scratch on him... he'd likely go to prison.

It's a stupid and unhelpful comment from the president.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

If Zimmerman hadn't been beaten bloody, claiming self-defense would have been a lot more challenging.
If Martin shot Zimmerman just for following him, without a scratch on him... he'd likely go to prison.

It's a stupid and unhelpful comment from the president.

It was dark, Zimmerman was following a young man out to buy skittles. He was armed - Florida allows concealed carry, so if Martin had been armed and he had been approached by Zimmerman he would have been justified shooting Zimmerman before Zimmerman shot him.

As it happened Martin wasn't armed, so he did the same but with his fists, and because he didn't have a gun he died. If he had been armed, Zimmerman would be dead.

Zimmerman was beaten, but not horribly, mostly that was unfortunate because his head was right by the curb.

The fact is - there's no Western country where Zimmerman would not have gone to gaol, except the US.

[Xiahou]

I don't understand what you're saying....
Are you trying to claim that since Florida has CCW licenses, that Martin, or anyone, could have assumed Zimmerman was not only armed, but presented an imminent threat of great harm/death and preemptively shot him even if Zimmerman had not threatened him. Then you further think that a jury would buy that and let him off?

If so- that's a load of rubbish.
If that's not what you're saying, please explain yourself better- because I don't see what you're getting at.

Please remember. Assault is a criminal act. Following someone around outside is not.

[Papewaio]

The kid could have shot Zimmerman and his defence would have been that he thought he was being stalked and about to be mugged/raped/murdered.

Did the kid die instantly or was he defending himself from a stalker who drew a firearm?

[Xiahou]

The kid could have shot Zimmerman and his defence would have been that he thought he was being stalked and about to be mugged/raped/murdered.

And would a jury have thought that a reasonable assumption? Not likely. Martin would not have had a scratch on him, and the man he shot would have turned out to be the head of the neighborhood watch.

It was a stupid thing for Obama to say. And even more stupid considering he was a lawyer.... Then again, most of our politicians are lawyers and stupid- so I'll give him a pass on that part....

Did the kid die instantly or was he defending himself from a stalker who drew a firearm?

Are you talking hypothetically here??

[Strike For The South]

I also think we are forgetting the fact that the defense claimed Martin doubled back.

If you want the law to change, elect a representative to enact that change.

Or you could forget about your representative until the red ticker on CNN tells you something is popping off.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I don't understand what you're saying....
Are you trying to claim that since Florida has CCW licenses, that Martin, or anyone, could have assumed Zimmerman was not only armed, but presented an imminent threat of great harm/death and preemptively shot him even if Zimmerman had not threatened him. Then you further think that a jury would buy that and let him off?

If so- that's a load of rubbish.
If that's not what you're saying, please explain yourself better- because I don't see what you're getting at.

Please remember. Assault is a criminal act. Following someone around outside is not.

No - that's pretty much it.

Zimmerman looks like a fairly solid guy - it's dark - he's following me - this isn't a great neighborhood - people get attacked - this is Florida, so he could be armed, hell I'm armed.

So I'll shoot him before he shoots me - that's actually what I'd do in that situation - in a country where people carry concealed weapons and are allowed to shoot other people without even being arrested, I'd be pretty terrified if someone was following me.

The situation only tilts further in Martin's favour if he says he doubled back to remonstrate with Zimmerman and then Zimmerman became aggressive (which seems likely given that Martin felt the need to knock him down).

When the cops turn up I can say, "I was afraid he had a weapon", the cops search the body and low and behold he has a nasty little hold-out pistol without a safety catch.

How is that any less credible than Zimmerman's story?

After all - doesn't Zimmerman's defense rest of him being afraid for his life, against an unarmed man much lighter than him? Surely the same defense MUST be applicable before weapons are drawn, because otherwise it's functionally useless in a situation where both parties are armed.

Or we come back to Obama being right - Stand Your Ground is a charter for armed Civilians to shoot and kill unarmed Civilians if they throw a punch.

[rvg]

Or we come back to Obama being right - Stand Your Ground is a charter for armed Civilians to shoot and kill unarmed Civilians if they throw a punch.

Punch a wrong guy and you might end up dead. Moral of the story: don't punch people.

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Punch a wrong guy and you might end up dead. Moral of the story: don't punch people.

And if Martin would have had a gun?

Would the moral then be, "don't follow people in the dark"?

It's an awesome​ way to order your society - fear.

[Whacker]

No - that's pretty much it.

Zimmerman looks like a fairly solid guy - it's dark - he's following me - this isn't a great neighborhood - people get attacked - this is Florida, so he could be armed, hell I'm armed.

So I'll shoot him before he shoots me - that's actually what I'd do in that situation - in a country where people carry concealed weapons and are allowed to shoot other people without even being arrested, I'd be pretty terrified if someone was following me.

The situation only tilts further in Martin's favour if he says he doubled back to remonstrate with Zimmerman and then Zimmerman became aggressive (which seems likely given that Martin felt the need to knock him down).

When the cops turn up I can say, "I was afraid he had a weapon", the cops search the body and low and behold he has a nasty little hold-out pistol without a safety catch.

How is that any less credible than Zimmerman's story?

After all - doesn't Zimmerman's defense rest of him being afraid for his life, against an unarmed man much lighter than him? Surely the same defense MUST be applicable before weapons are drawn, because otherwise it's functionally useless in a situation where both parties are armed.

Or we come back to Obama being right - Stand Your Ground is a charter for armed Civilians to shoot and kill unarmed Civilians if they throw a punch.

Not sure if trolling or authentic...

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

Not sure if trolling or authentic...

If you live in a country like the UK America is pretty terrifying.

No healthcare and pretty much anybody could be carrying a gun - and there's a chance that if you raise your voice - someone will shoot you. Then, when you get shot and killed, nobody even gets arrested.

Sure, I'd have shot Zimmerman, he looks either dopey or shifty in all the photos, it's dark, bulky jacket, if I saw the harness I'd assume that guy was going to kill me.

That's a cultural thing though - in the UK we only use guns to kill people. So if you see someone carrying one and he's not a cop, he's probably going to kill you.

Given that Zimmerman used his gun to kill Martin, I feel somewhat justified in this view of firearms.