Zimmerman not guilty.

**HoreTore** · 11-15-2013, 16:39

Originally Posted by Husar

Well, if you buy it to defend yourself from police torture, then I doubt you'd want to ask the police about it first...
In states with background checks it might prove difficult if they don't use the NSA databases for the background checks but on some gun fair in Alabama where noone asks for anything, it might just work, right?

And then, when some cops with shady hoods/hats follow you, you may want to preemptively strike them before they enter your private zones. If you wait until they grab your arms it's too late.

And how can the constitution not apply to me while I'm there? Does that mean the laws don't apply either? I can see how benefits such as unemployment benefits do not apply, but a selective application of rights seem shady. After all the declaration of independence reads: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Do I have to assume that they forgot about the rights for all humans around the time they made the constitution? The whole gun debate always boils down to getting a gun to defend your right to life and the pursuit of happiness. Denying the right to defend your life to other humans clearly goes against the spirit of the DoI.

The constitution wasn't written for blacks and other brown people, so I doubt it was written for krauts on holiday...

I've never really been able to understand how sensible people can venerate a document written by(and allowing for) people who thought it was a splendid idea to kidnap people and put them to work for the rest of their lives, and kill or rape them as they pleased. What a wonderful bunch of idiots that was.

**Seamus Fermanagh** · 11-15-2013, 17:17

Originally Posted by HoreTore

The constitution wasn't written for blacks and other brown people, so I doubt it was written for krauts on holiday...

I've never really been able to understand how sensible people can venerate a document written by(and allowing for) people who thought it was a splendid idea to kidnap people and put them to work for the rest of their lives, and kill or rape them as they pleased. What a wonderful bunch of idiots that was.

Actually, the only race mentioned in the original text of the Constitution were "Indians." [Amerinds, Native Americans, First Peoples] The only other delineation was between free and non-free persons.

As to the "kidnapping" portion, The Constitution did provide for a ban on the importation of slaves beginning in 1808, and Congress enacted such a law at the earliest possible date mentioned in the Constitution. This followed even earlier attempts to restrict shipping and ship construction for the trade. Nevertheless, slavery was our "original sin" as a nation, stands as the least moral component of our society at the time of our founding, and was not expiated until more than half a million of us died "arguing" the issue.

The Constitution was also written to be amended and improved, which we have done regarding this issue.

I acknowledge that Norway allowed slavery to die out even before the New World was discovered, to your credit, but it is not as though slaves weren't mentioned in your own legal documents of the past (e.g. The Gulating [sic?] code). Dig far enough back and almost all societies fail when judged by today's moral standard on the issue.

Oh, and foreigners living in the USA legally may purchase firearms. The typical residency requirements for purchase functionally restrict sales to tourists. Dealers at shows tend to follow the same rules that brick & mortar stores do regarding firearms, but private sales (person to person, no dealer status), though they are supposed to follow the same basic rules, are difficult to oversee and restrict.

**HoreTore** · 11-15-2013, 17:54

First of all Seamus, I go by peoples actions - the constitution was written by slave-owners, and they didn't stop doing it. Obviously, when the constitution talks about "all men being free", black people weren't in their minds(but africans are animals anyway, right?).

And a small history lesson: Gulating was the legal code for the western portion of Norway only, and westerners are widely known to be barbaric savages(just look at @Sigurd ). Each part of Norway had their own laws(think of us like a mini-HRE) until Magnus Lagabøte made a law for the entire country a couple of centuries later. Then we became danes, of course, and worked hard to ship slaves over to the US.

Still, I have very few problems with that, just like I have very few problems with the US constitution or even our own jew-banning one. What I do have a problem with are those who make the creators of those laws into divine beings whose unparallelled wisdom created a perfect law for all time. That's the problem, those who can't seem to understand that they where men of their time creating laws for their time, which may not be useful in our time, no more than the laws of the Eidsivating are useful for me.

**Husar** · 11-15-2013, 17:59

Well, if you plan to use it against police officers anyway, the legality of acquiring it may be the least of your worries.

As a completely submissive pro-government commie I doubt I'd personally run into any big problems with the police force in the USA, and for the healthcare you usually get some overseas policy from your own insurance before you go abroad, no?

**Lemur** · 11-15-2013, 18:25

Originally Posted by Husar

As a completely submissive pro-government commie I doubt I'd personally run into any big problems with the police force in the USA

Meh, you don't fight the police when they've stopped you. You just don't.*

You put on your serious-and-concerned face, you say "Yes officer" and little else, and you cooperate.** Then (if appropriate) you fight them like hell in court.

On the street it's your word versus his, and the deck is stacked high against you. In court, you're on a much more even footing.

There's a time and a place for everything.

* Unless you believe your life is in immediate danger, but that's whole other topic, and kinda tricky to deal with correctly.
** With the exception of searches. You never agree to a search of anything. They may do it anyway, but you state clearly, "I do not consent to you searching my person/car/boat/home/whatever." It matters that you say this.