How should European countries react on the NSA activities?

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

I never claimed anyone has moral highground, I just said some are more honest about it than others.

About our own secret service I'm horribly confused because the press seems to be as well.
First people think of course they knew, then they say they knew about prism, then it turns out there is also a prism in Afghanistan that is separate and maybe they knew only about that.
As for them doing it themselves I first heard that they released money to start such a program shortly after prism was revealed and/or they strongly wanted such a program, now some say they already have it. If they already have it, why did they want money to get it?

I'm not claiming anything, just saying all the info seems shady, at least Putin said right away that he is doing the same thing, no confusion there.

As for the "gulags", are they worse than gitmo? Are they even comparable to the actual gulags during the worst communist years? Or do people just say that because it sounds horrible and they can't get over how harsh russians and their weather are?

So - wait- the Germans ARE doing it too?

Anyway - as regards Russia and Putin vs the US.

The US has the same prejudice against Muslims now that it had against the Japanese during WWII.

Russia has a perpetual prejudice against everyone and a history of autocracy. Russia is not our friend, never has been, never will be. The US has behaved very badly over the last decade, but the underlying ideas are still there and they still see us in a better light than they do Muslims, especially dark Muslims.

If we're being honest - the US will treat us better - at the very least they'll not cut us while they ravage us - Russia, all bets are off.

[Husar]

So - wait- the Germans ARE doing it too?

I don't know, reports seem contradictory. You can't even expect our government to be as clear as Putin.
The West can't even keep up with Putin in terms of government transparency.
We always know that everything in Russia is the fault of Putin, we even know which mysterious killings are the fault of Putin, but we have no idea what our own governments are doing and what not. What kind of sad and pathetic state is that where we seem to be more clear about what's happening everywhere else in the world but have no clue about what our own governments are actually doing?

Anyway - as regards Russia and Putin vs the US.

The US has the same prejudice against Muslims now that it had against the Japanese during WWII.

Russia has a perpetual prejudice against everyone and a history of autocracy. Russia is not our friend, never has been, never will be. The US has behaved very badly over the last decade, but the underlying ideas are still there and they still see us in a better light than they do Muslims, especially dark Muslims.

If we're being honest - the US will treat us better - at the very least they'll not cut us while they ravage us - Russia, all bets are off.

More Russians = barbarians rhetoric? And how can you know what Russia will be in the future? Have you switched from christianity to shamanism? I expect more from the USA than being a kinder variety of plundering hordes, at least as long as they say that we shouldn't be anti-American because they stand in for freedom and democracy.

And ACIN, that the USA has become what it is is not the fault of some activists and it's not Russia 2.0 either.
However the government and the general populace seem to have no problem to go nuclear and abandon all their "strongly held" principles at the sight of a scary-looking rat and that's a dangerous trend.

[Beskar]

I wish the EU was stronger and people got behind it, then we don't have to play the silly argument game of "Let's suck up to USA or Russia!" which is fundamentally a dumb idea, considering that the EU together has bigger GDP and power than either the USA or Russia. They should be sucking up to the EU.

[The Lurker Below]

I wish the EU was stronger and people got behind it, then we don't have to play the silly argument game of "Let's suck up to USA or Russia!" which is fundamentally a dumb idea, considering that the EU together has bigger GDP and power than either the USA or Russia. They should be sucking up to the EU.

IF the U.S. response was to let the EU then become international police officer and quit spending my taxes on fighter planes and spend my taxes on infrastructure instead, I'd say that'd be fantastic! GO!

pretty absurd IF

[Beskar]

IF the U.S. response was to let the EU then become international police officer and quit spending my taxes on fighter planes and spend my taxes on infrastructure instead, I'd say that'd be fantastic! GO!

pretty absurd IF

Thing is, the US spends far more on the military then what it needs to. So you could still cut it and play 'International Police'. Though America is more in the position of "International Godfather".

[Sarmatian]

IF the U.S. response was to let the EU then become international police officer and quit spending my taxes on fighter planes and spend my taxes on infrastructure instead, I'd say that'd be fantastic! GO!

pretty absurd IF

And where it is written that the world needs a policeman? Rest of the world has pretty much gotten used to the idea that not everything can be "your way". Germans imports almost all of it oil. Do they go on a conquering spree when the prices go up? No, they suck it up and move on.

[Greyblades]

I wish the EU was stronger and people got behind it, then we don't have to play the silly argument game of "Let's suck up to USA or Russia!" which is fundamentally a dumb idea, considering that the EU together has bigger GDP and power than either the USA or Russia. They should be sucking up to the EU.

I'll join that sentiment, assuming that the EU you speak of is not headed by the current gaggle of politicians that, by comparison, make even the national level political parties seem like they have our best interests at heart.

[Franconicus]

I'll join that sentiment, assuming that the EU you speak of is not headed by the current gaggle of politicians that, by comparison, make even the national level political parties seem like they have our best interests at heart.

The Eu isn't so bad. From my point of view it has three problems:

1) National parties send only third grade politicians or politicians that failed in national parliaments. They get promoted to the EU, where they cannot cause too much trouble.

2) Local politicians: It is always a good strategy bashing the EU if citizens are unhappy with something. One example is the water issue. People at Germany were very upset abut this. However, the program was innitiated by the national governments (incl. ours) and they had several opportunities to stop it. Once the people got upset, our local politicians were upset too putting blame on the EU.

3) EU has no real power, it is still dominated by the national governemnts. There are only some fields were they have competence to pass laws and they use these far too much.

[Brenus]

“Though America is more in the position of "International Godfather".” Really ?

“The Eu isn't so bad” Was not that bad. But now, unelected bodies dictate what is good or not, adoption of treaties against the will of population, liberal dictatorship (dictasoftship) (dictablanda not dictadura) imposing economical rules and hardship on the European Populations to save the Riches… I think the European Construction was supposed to unify the populations of the continent, not to oppress them