House votes to continue NSA spying on citizens

[HopAlongBunny]

It's interesting.
Today on CNN I saw an Oregon Senator fielding questions.
More interesting than what he had to say, was the fact he had been active working against the abuses of the NSA for quite some time.
So why has it never surfaced until now?

[HopAlongBunny]

Ah, "voice in the wilderness" sort. Explains the lack of media attention.
So I guess it is another reason to thank Snowden for pushing the issue public.
You'd think that the media would have been all over this "if only they knew"; which they apparently did.

[Beskar]

XKeyscore: NSA tool collects 'nearly everything a user does on the internet'

A top secret National Security Agency program allows analysts to search with no prior authorization through vast databases containing emails, online chats and the browsing histories of millions of individuals, according to documents provided by whistleblower Edward Snowden.

The NSA boasts in training materials that the program, called XKeyscore, is its "widest-reaching" system for developing intelligence from the internet.

The latest revelations will add to the intense public and congressional debate around the extent of NSA surveillance programs. They come as senior intelligence officials testify to the Senate judiciary committee on Wednesday, releasing classified documents in response to the Guardian's earlier stories on bulk collection of phone records and Fisa surveillance court oversight.

The files shed light on one of Snowden's most controversial statements, made in his first video interview published by the Guardian on June 10.

"I, sitting at my desk," said Snowden, could "wiretap anyone, from you or your accountant, to a federal judge or even the president, if I had a personal email".

US officials vehemently denied this specific claim. Mike Rogers, the Republican chairman of the House intelligence committee, said of Snowden's assertion: "He's lying. It's impossible for him to do what he was saying he could do."

But training materials for XKeyscore detail how analysts can use it and other systems to mine enormous agency databases by filling in a simple on-screen form giving only a broad justification for the search. The request is not reviewed by a court or any NSA personnel before it is processed.

XKeyscore, the documents boast, is the NSA's "widest reaching" system developing intelligence from computer networks – what the agency calls Digital Network Intelligence (DNI). One presentation claims the program covers "nearly everything a typical user does on the internet", including the content of emails, websites visited and searches, as well as their metadata.

Analysts can also use XKeyscore and other NSA systems to obtain ongoing "real-time" interception of an individual's internet activity.

Under US law, the NSA is required to obtain an individualized Fisa warrant only if the target of their surveillance is a 'US person', though no such warrant is required for intercepting the communications of Americans with foreign targets. But XKeyscore provides the technological capability, if not the legal authority, to target even US persons for extensive electronic surveillance without a warrant provided that some identifying information, such as their email or IP address, is known to the analyst.

One training slide illustrates the digital activity constantly being collected by XKeyscore and the analyst's ability to query the databases at any time....

Contains slides and everything of what the NSA does.

[rvg]

According to the slides the data is stored for no more than 30 days simply because they cannot physically store long term this volume of information. That's not scary at all actually.

[Beskar]

I think GCHQ was 3 Months, but yes, there are physical limits.

[rvg]

That's not the point. The point is that these are secret laws, secret courts, secret protocols, and the oversight committees that oversee them are in the defense industry's pocket. It doesn't matter how benign the rules are when nobody has to follow them.

So that basically means that the US government operates like just about any other government.

[rvg]

Whatever. We can do better than a Congress full of a spineless tools,

Indeed...

a supreme court full of equally spineless tools,

and a president who can't keep his lies and promises straight.

Meh. Maybe he knows something that he can't share with us as far as why this program should keep on going.

If you're not outraged, you're part of the problem.

It would be akin to getting outraged over the fact that the world is not perfect.

[TheLastDays]

Meh. Maybe he knows something that he can't share with us as far as why this program should keep on going.


It would be akin to getting outraged over the fact that the world is not perfect.

Outrage is maybe not the answer but indifference isn't either. But the first statement is nonsense if you believe in true democracy.

Now don't get me wrong I don't believe democracy is the holy grail but if one believes in it (and the US believe that they are a democratic nation, no?) how can there be anything the people should not know? How can the people rule the country if they don't know what's going on?

[rvg]

If the Supreme Court wasn't spineless and/or totally corrupt, Money would not equal speech in the most literal and democratically offensive way possible. No love for the supremes.

Can you back up this claim with something specific?

Which would be part of the problem. The President serves a 4-8 year term, so if every incoming president suddenly is faced with the facts of our secretive and perpetually growing national security apparatus, and that truth is enough to compromise said president's values, then I blame the apparatus. Obviously there's crap going on that shouldn't be going on, and we can't know about it because why, again? If its too damned sneaky and evil for the public to know about, then its a bad ing idea and should be done away with.

A state with no state secrets? Unlikely.

Not really. We've been spinning the wheels in this country for decades, and complacency is the enemy. Only the most ignorant bastard living under a rock is unaware of how corrupt our government is, and only a self-hating ignorant bastard is okay with it. I hope my generation tears this crap down, but more likely we'll just watch and laugh, like previous generations.

You're letting the emotions get the best of you over something that's as old as the civilization itself.

Outrage is maybe not the answer but indifference isn't either. But the first statement is nonsense if you believe in true democracy.

True democracy died with the ancient Athens.

Now don't get me wrong I don't believe democracy is the holy grail but if one believes in it (and the US believe that they are a democratic nation, no?) how can there be anything the people should not know? How can the people rule the country if they don't know what's going on?

People aren't entitled to know everything. Joe Blow down the road doesn't need to know specific details about the U.S. nuclear capability.