HoreTore 17:16 07-29-2013
Originally Posted by rvg:
Yet they get done.
Of course, and they're great too, but "nullifying costs" only happens in science fiction.
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
Of course, and they're great too, but "nullifying costs" only happens in science fiction.
Not true at all. IT is usually a major cost saver.
HoreTore 18:21 07-29-2013
Originally Posted by rvg:
Not true at all. IT is usually a major cost saver.
Of course it is, but it's a long way from decreasing costs to nullifying costs.
Originally Posted by HoreTore:
Of course it is, but it's a long way from decreasing costs to nullifying costs.
Good enough to sufficiently reduce the costs to make the pay-as-you-go system viable.
Montmorency 18:49 07-29-2013
How does a citizen pay for national security? A safety tax?
How does one pay for the military? Residency tax?
How does one pay for police? If a crook victimizes you, you must pay for the privilege of not allowing the crook to commit further crimes against other individuals? What's the difference between that and a generalized tax, besides that it's far more regressive than the latter.
How does one pay for the fire department? Your possessions are burning away, so pay up now to save the rest? Or maybe the rest of the neighborhood will contribute to prevent the fire from spreading and burning down the homes of thousands? Easy to envision a rerun of Crassus...
How does one pay for the justice system? It's already desperately underfunded, and somehow I don't imagine poor criminals would be able to foot the bill. For that matter, how do we pay for prisons? Aside from the criminal aspect, what about lawsuits? If all the awards are confiscated by the state to pay for the process, then what's the point?
For analyzing usage of road systems, there would have to be a camera every 10 feet - a hundred times as many cameras as in all the UK. There would have to be very complex algorithms behind them to work out different classes of vehicles and other data for the price breakdown.
It seems very likely that PAYG is inherently unworkable. Shame on you for even suggesting such nonsense.
Originally Posted by Montmorency:
It seems very likely that PAYG is inherently unworkable. Shame on you for even suggesting such nonsense.
I'm only saying that it
can happen. Nothing more. It might succeed or it might fail, I'm not gonna care since I'll be dead.
gaelic cowboy 19:59 07-29-2013
Originally Posted by rvg:
Not true at all. IT is usually a major cost saver.
It only does that by increasing your productivity the cost will likely still be quite large.
Originally Posted by gaelic cowboy:
It only does that by increasing your productivity the cost will likely still be quite large.
Either way it makes the unfeasible feasible.
Papewaio 23:28 07-29-2013
Not all projects get done and not all IT projects are there to save money.
=][=
You wouldn't put cameras on the road. It would make more sense to mandate them on the car and add GPS. Covers roads, off road and accidents.
What Pape says.
IT projects are more likely to increase productivity if they're actually successful, nowhere near 100% are successful.
You should also be aware of this graphic or one of its variations:
http://www.projectcartoon.com/cartoon/2
Montmorency 23:45 07-29-2013
Interesting.
All dashboard cams linked to a central network, analyzed by govt computers...
If someone's camera stops working, an alert goes out to the driver to pull over immediately and wait for a replacement (for a nominal fee) or be hunted down by police. Tracking of cars through GPS and other means would certainly make it easy to locate offenders, I suppose. On the other hand, isn't that pretty much run-of-the-mill for dystopian-future sci-fi?
Originally Posted by Papewaio:
Not all projects get done and not all IT projects are there to save money.
=][=
You wouldn't put cameras on the road. It would make more sense to mandate them on the car and add GPS. Covers roads, off road and accidents.
Or to simply charge a road toll. No need for cameras, gps or anything else. Just a tollbooth.
Montmorency 23:53 07-29-2013
Originally Posted by :
Just a tollbooth.
That would severely exacerbate traffic, I bet. A tollbooth at every exit onto a highway?
If you'll have PAYG, it just makes a lot more sense to turn the automobile into a super-surveillance device that the government has total control (at its discretion) over, so that whatever fees or tolls are assigned can be deducted automatically.
Any way you look at it, it's either a phenomenal increase in either bureaucracy or surveillance - likely both.
Originally Posted by Montmorency:
That would severely exacerbate traffic, I bet. A tollbooth at every exit onto a highway?
Chicago tollways work quite well. The booths are on the expressway itself, not at the ramps.
Originally Posted by :
If you'll have PAYG, it just makes a lot more sense to turn the automobile into a super-surveillance device that the government has total control (at its discretion) over, so that whatever fees or tolls are assigned can be deducted automatically. Any way you look at it, it's either a phenomenal increase in either bureaucracy or surveillance - likely both.
There's absolutely no reason to needlessly complicate this process when a simple tollbooth solves the problem.
Originally Posted by Papewaio:
Tollbooths are expensive to operate. Sydney has plenty and the most expensive toll road per meter.
How would you use them on every street? Not all streets even have traffic lights.
Urban driving permit. Purchased from the company that would maintain the city roads. Simple.
Montmorency 00:15 07-30-2013
Originally Posted by :
Chicago tollways work quite well. The booths are on the expressway itself, not at the ramps.
Toll roads are a very small minority of the roads in the country. We're talking about every inch of the numbered highways being covered, as well as all other marked roads.
Originally Posted by :
Urban driving permit. Purchased from the company that would maintain the city roads. Simple.
So someone who drives five miles a week to the nearest Costco pays as much as, say, a taxicab?
Papewaio 23:54 07-29-2013
Tollbooths are expensive to operate. Sydney has plenty and the most expensive toll road per meter.
How would you use them on every street? Not all streets even have traffic lights.
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