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Thread: Sunny Gib

  1. #1
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Sunny Gib

    Camaroon is sending in the Navy. What they do when they get there is another matter. They'll probably just sit in port watching the Guardia shooting at British jet skiers and fishermen. I wonder what would happen if they took some pot shots back at them...

    Seriously, this is getting silly now.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  2. #2
    Moderator Moderator Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    You could have provided a link, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-23627655

    So people know what you are on about.

    If Spain has a claim on Gibraltar then Germany and Austria have claims to most of the rest of Europe. Then Turkey would want to lay claim to most of the Mid East. This is dumb.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
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    the vast limits of their knowledge.
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  3. #3
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    Who needs that rock, silly indeed. But anything that hurts the EU I cheer for, the more conflict over silly things the better

  4. #4
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    Ah fascism. When you can't manage an economy create a distraction.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
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    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

  5. #5
    Ranting madman of the .org Senior Member Fly Shoot Champion, Helicopter Champion, Pedestrian Killer Champion, Sharpshooter Champion, NFS Underground Champion Rhyfelwyr's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    What is going on these days between the likes of the Falklands and Gibraltar?

    I think the economic crisis must have something to do with it - when you can't get legitimacy by providing a decent quality of life, some good old-fashioned jingoism gets the people behind you.
    At the end of the day politics is just trash compared to the Gospel.

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  6. #6
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    Spaniards clamor to get Gibraltar, but would they give Ceuta to the Moroccans? No? Oh sorry then, no Gibraltar.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

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  7. #7
    Moderator Moderator Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    Gibraltar has said if the UK doesn’t want them then make them independent, they no way want to be part of Spain.

    If Spain wants them they need to invade. You know how well that will go over.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
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    the vast limits of their knowledge.
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  8. #8
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube View Post
    Does Spain still have a core on Gibraltar? If so, at least the CB is free.
    Same culture group, so the core is never lost.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

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  9. #9
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    The state that our armed forces are in, particularly the navy, I think we'd probably lose.

    http://www.globalfirepower.com/count...pare+Countries

    Just so you know, Camoron has sent an aircraft carrier. The downside is, it has no aircraft on it. The up side is, that we sold them.

    To the Spanish.

    You couldn't make it up.
    Last edited by InsaneApache; 08-10-2013 at 08:43.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

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  10. #10

    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    It sounds to me like Gibraltar does not wish to be treated as mere chattel: very disturbing...
    Ja-mata TosaInu

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  11. #11
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    The state that our armed forces are in, particularly the navy, I think we'd probably lose.

    http://www.globalfirepower.com/count...pare+Countries
    Doesnt seem so bad, we outdo them in pretty much everything.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


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  12. #12

    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    The state that our armed forces are in, particularly the navy, I think we'd probably lose.

    http://www.globalfirepower.com/count...pare+Countries

    Just so you know, Camoron has sent an aircraft carrier. The downside is, it has no aircraft on it. The up side is, that we sold them.

    To the Spanish.

    You couldn't make it up.
    Stop moaning and remember that "we're all in this together"...

    Or as it's more commonly referred to "well that's another fine mess..."

  13. #13
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    What's a Gibraltar and what kind of animals do you sacrifice on one?

    Also the whole Spain vs. UK in a war scenario is so bad, it can only come from the UK side...

    Don't forget that Germany and France would be with Spain since Spain would be finally bankrupted during such a war and we'd want to save our investments...

    I wouldn't mind watching the FFL storm Buckingham Palace on TV though.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  14. #14
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    How did the last two attempts go?
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
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    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

  15. #15
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    What's a Gibraltar and what kind of animals do you sacrifice on one?

    Also the whole Spain vs. UK in a war scenario is so bad, it can only come from the UK side...

    Don't forget that Germany and France would be with Spain since Spain would be finally bankrupted during such a war and we'd want to save our investments...

    I wouldn't mind watching the FFL storm Buckingham Palace on TV though.
    You'd think that they'd be better off telling the Spanish to stop picking fights they can't win.

    Thos will end the same way the latest Falkland issue ended, a lot of hot air and both populations losing interest.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 08-11-2013 at 14:01.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
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  16. #16
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio View Post
    How did the last two attempts go?
    Last two attempts at what?
    The French alredy conquered Britain once but it didn't work so well the other way around.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  17. #17
    Moderator Moderator Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    Try again. Normans didn’t think of themselves as French and the French didn’t think of them as French until they discovered Nationalism.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
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    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    Last two attempts at what?
    The French alredy conquered Britain once but it didn't work so well the other way around.
    When England invaded France we took over half the country and France took 100 years to shift. When France invaded england their invading army took over all the country, declared themselves English then proceeded to tell the French king to jump off a bridge. I think that counts as a draw really.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
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  19. #19
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    Why try again? It may not even be what Pape was trying to say. I merely said the island isn't really invulnerable despite what the natives like to think.
    Last edited by Husar; 08-11-2013 at 15:01.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

  20. #20
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    The island is formidable, it's people are even more so, when combined in one purpose we are indomitable. It doesnt really mean much here though, Gibraltar is not British mainland.

    This is really not going anywhere, both of our nations cannot afford a war with each other and the rest of nato arent going to just let us have it out. This is a game of political dick swinging that wont go anywhere, mainly because if it does the instigator will be ganged up on anyway.
    Last edited by Greyblades; 08-11-2013 at 15:18.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  21. #21
    Moderator Moderator Fisherking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    I think the Dutch conquest is a better example, the story about him being invited was fabricated after the fact. All he had to do was hold Parliament at sword point for a while and they caved in.

    But they remade the facts of that invasion to suit their ideals and ideas of invulnerability.

    The Spanish have backed off now after throwing a tantrum over a reef and one boats fishing rights.

    Not only does Gibraltar not want to be Spanish but the Spanish who work there don’t want it to be either. Then their economy would be just as bad as it is on the other side of the border.


    Education: that which reveals to the wise,
    and conceals from the stupid,
    the vast limits of their knowledge.
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  22. #22
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio View Post
    How did the last two attempts go?
    The British stomped the FFL the last time there was a fight.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    When England invaded France we took over half the country and France took 100 years to shift”: England never invaded France. The King of England was French. Just read a book of History about Feudalism and the Duke of Normandy being the King of England, etc. I am too tired to do a long paragraph, sorry.

    Normans didn’t think of themselves as French” Oh? The Duke of Normandy didn’t have the duty of Homage to the King of France? Rollon, after de defeat of the Vikings in front of Chartres, signed the Treaty of St Clair sur Epte with the King of France Charles III le Simple and accept to be the Vassal of the King of France. William Long Sword, his son, will carry on.
    So, they adopt French as language, adapt the Religion of France, were within the political system of France (in fact they were French long before the part where I born was French), but, hey, they were not French.

    If Spain has a claim on Gibraltar then Germany and Austria have claims to most of the rest of Europe. Then Turkey would want to lay claim to most of the Mid East. This is dumb.” What? Germany didn’t exist when the English took Gibraltar to the Spanish!
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
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  24. #24
    Member Member Greyblades's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenus View Post
    When England invaded France we took over half the country and France took 100 years to shift”: England never invaded France. The King of England was French. Just read a book of History about Feudalism and the Duke of Normandy being the King of England, etc. I am too tired to do a long paragraph, sorry.
    I know, you silly person, I am fully aware of england's history, I also know that England gained posession of large parts of france several times through conquest and diplomacy, and we were kicked out of all of france (save calais) after 100 years of on and off war. I think you have a problem when even I think you should lighten up.

    What? Germany didn’t exist when the English took Gibraltar to the Spanis
    It's equivelance, if Britain should hand over Gibraltar its setting up a rather bad precident that leads to thoughts like giving land over to the former owners, If this goes through the germans could say "While we're turning back historical land ownership, regardless of the occupant's wishes, we think that France should hand over Alsace-Lorraine to the fatherland, previous agreements be damned, and they should be happy about doing so." Or the turks could say "the balklands should go back to being part of our nation because it used to be ours."
    Last edited by Greyblades; 08-11-2013 at 21:47.
    Being better than the worst does not inherently make you good. But being better than the rest lets you brag.


    Quote Originally Posted by Strike For The South View Post
    Don't be scared that you don't freak out. Be scared when you don't care about freaking out
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

  25. #25
    Headless Senior Member Pannonian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    Quote Originally Posted by Greyblades View Post
    It's equivelance, if Britain should hand over Gibraltar its setting up a rather bad precident that leads to thoughts like giving land over to the former owners, If this goes through the germans could say "While we're turning back historical land ownership, regardless of the occupant's wishes, we think that France should hand over Alsace-Lorraine to the fatherland, previous agreements be damned, and they should be happy about doing so." Or the turks could say "the balklands should go back to being part of our nation because it used to be ours."
    Legal and geographical arguments lead to all kinds of complications and hypocrisies as as the claiming state demands that the argument applies in one situation but not another. The most consistent and least hypocritical argument is self-determination, which AFAIK is one of the founding principles of the UN. That argument is pretty clearcut in the cases of Gibraltar and the Falklands, with 99% in favour of the status quo.

  26. #26
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    Last two attempts were the World Wars.

    To convince EU mainland to side with Spain vs UK would probably end with the invaders capitals as glass craters.

    Why?

    First you would have to convince all EU nations that breaking treaties for land grabs was legitimate.

    Spain ceded Gibralter as part of a treaty more than ninty nine years ago. Therefore it's UKs

    Second all EU nations would have to ignore the right to self determination. I'm sure he former eastern bloc nations such as Poland would love that idea.

    France would have to be convinced that some of its border areas with Spain weren't up for grabs next, likewise Netherlands would have to be convinced in the the new militant order it wouldn't be subordinated to Spain.

    Greece would also have to agree with this idea.

    So now you have a new EU mainland all united to war on UK and even stating they will storm Buckingham Palace.

    I'm sure Russia would be happy to wait this out and watch as UK gets taken out and so would the USA. Except neither would want a fully militarized, veteran EU that is willing to invade its own states. US would not want to give up its lone superpower status to such a state. Russia would be nervous that it would be carved up next.

    And why wouldn't it think so? If individual EU nations can be invaded because of broken treaties?

    China probably wouldn't want to have a militant EU getting in the way of its rise. China would not want to support one of its competitors (German) over its main markets US and UK. It would happily supply arms in a leand lease to maintain the status quo. Australia would be supplying the raw materials to China and backing up its long term allies of US and UK.

    US would be very worried about the US warheads in EU going to a facist EU state and would have to quickly mobilize. Hasty decisions would lead to hasty consequences. US and Russia's best options to prevent a long war ending in nuclear war would be to have a quick series of nuclear strikes. The EU leading capitals would be no more.

    So to stop such a hasty action. The EU mainland would have to give some mighty concessions to US, Russia and China. Not to mention what India may want.

    Of course this all unravels before a worthy alliance forms in the EU, the moment France says get stuffed. Than you have all permanent UN Security Council members telling the wannabe invaders to stand down.

    I don't see Germany has the necessary weapons: historical behaviour in creating a united Europe unless its against Germany, nor does it have the diplomatic nuance to pull this off. First to get Greece to agree they would have to forget all debts with them... Probably costing more than the Spanish ones.

    So even if they pulled off the alliance it would cost them. Even if they declared war on UK it would trigger an unholy alliance of the remaining nuclear armed security council who would be very nervous.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
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  27. #27
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    Oh look, two conservative leaders unable to resolve anything without turning it into a silly penis-competition with the armed forces.

    What a shocker!

    Is the right capable of handling anything like civilized and intelligent beings, or is it simply in their nature to waste everyones time on silly things like this?
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  28. #28
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    The rock will stay British. Any discussion over its fate is an utter waste of time. Any saber rattling over it is an exercise in futility.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

  29. #29
    Senior Member Senior Member Brenus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    I also know that England gained posession of large parts of france several times through conquest and diplomacy”: It wasn’t THE problem: The problem was the Duke of Normandy was the King of England… Then, when Philipp the Fair’s sons, all Kings of France, died, what left was his Daughter, Isabelle, married to the English King. She claimed the throne on behalf of her son. It was mainly a domestic dispute (her uncle claimed that the throne couldn’t go through females, and the war started –plus few back-stabs and feuds)…

    If this goes through the germans could say "While we're turning back historical land ownership, regardless of the occupant's wishes, we think that France should hand over Alsace-Lorraine to the fatherland” Yes, that would be tricky if only Germany would have existed in the XVII century… But I understand what if the French asked the Anglo-Normande Islands…

    “First you would have to convince all EU nations that breaking treaties for land grabs was legitimate.” This has been done before: Remember Kosovo?

    Second all EU nations would have to ignore the right to self determination” This has been done before: Bosnia and Croatia where Serbs Minorities clearly didn’t want to be part of the newly formed States.

    The EU leading capitals would be no more.” So the Russian and US one, I am afraid. France has an INDEPENDENT Nuclear Strike Capacity. So you can forget Moscow and Washington doing something (in case of Fascist United Europe). I can eve predict that USA will prevent UK to use their missiles…

    Ok, have to go to work…
    Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. Voltaire.

    "I've been in few famous last stands, lad, and they're butcher shops. That's what Blouse's leading you into, mark my words. What'll you lot do then? We've had a few scuffles, but that's not war. Think you'll be man enough to stand, when the metal meets the meat?"
    "You did, sarge", said Polly." You said you were in few last stands."
    "Yeah, lad. But I was holding the metal"
    Sergeant Major Jackrum 10th Light Foot Infantery Regiment "Inns-and-Out"

  30. #30
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sunny Gib

    Of course I know France like most of the permanent security council members have nuclear weapons.

    Very hard to forget when it uses state sponsored terrorism to stop peaceful protests.
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

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