Russian Anti-gay laws and violence, and the Olympic (Winter) Games.

[HoreTore]

I'm not excusing anyone's actions, I merely refuse to stereotype 140 million people based on the actions of a tiny minority.

Remember that I'm a socialist, rvg, I don't give a crap about the actual individuals, and when I call a society barbaric I'm not really talking about the individuals who make up that society(and I strongly believe that humans are basically good as well).

The person is the product of the society, and it is the society which is to blame here.

[rvg]

Remember that I'm a socialist...

You keep saying that as if it's supposed to somehow enhance your expertise about Russia. It does not.

I don't give a crap about the actual individuals, and when I call a society barbaric I'm not really talking about the individuals who make up that society(and I strongly believe that humans are basically good as well).

A barbaric society populated by non-barbaric individuals? That's quite ridiculous.

The person is the product of the society, and it is the society which is to blame here.

It's a two way street.

[HoreTore]

You keep saying that as if it's supposed to somehow enhance your expertise about Russia. It does not.


A barbaric society populated by non-barbaric individuals? That's quite ridiculous.


It's a two way street.

Expert on Russia? No, that I'm a socialist means that I see the world as collectivist as opposed to individualist, and I have no problem seeing a barbaric society populated by sane people.

And being socialist, I of course don't see your two way street, I see the person as overwhelmingly a product of society. Not trying to start a new discussion here, I simply said this to clarify my position.

[rvg]

I have no problem seeing a barbaric society populated by sane people.

I find that rather curious. If you build a sand castle, it has to be made out of sand. If you build a sand castle out of rocks, it's no longer a sand castle.

[Ironside]

I find that rather curious. If you build a sand castle, it has to be made out of sand. If you build a sand castle out of rocks, it's no longer a sand castle.

Poor allegory. The castle doesn't directly influence the building material and the building material itself doesn't change with time and/or outside influence.

We accept a lot of crazy stuff in the name of tradition, progression and the social game.

[rvg]

Poor allegory. The castle doesn't directly influence the building material and the building material itself doesn't change with time and/or outside influence.

We accept a lot of crazy stuff in the name of tradition, progression and the social game.

The point is that the society at large is representative of its most common basic components.

[Ironside]

The point is that the society at large is representative of its most common basic components.

You're Assyrian if I remember correctly? To make it more general in any case, an immigrant is a slightly different person depending on where he or she grew up, agreed?

And growing up is influenced a lot by the history of the family and region. So the society itself changes how the basic components looks like, making both top-down laws possible in changing attitude (far from always of course) and gives also room for a toleration window, as in "I don't like this way, but it's the way it's been (or should be) done and therefore I won't protest against it enough to create the change".

See the police abuse thread and the support of the congress for US' examples. The American society is coloured by it, it's hated by their own citizens, yet it's still there, accepted enough to remain.