Oct 2013- Resident Evil 2 Pregame discussion

[Askthepizzaguy]

Does that mean that if I'm aiming for a crazy team tag with a botanist and hope for vit boost herbs, I'll get 9 luck for my 1 vitality? Or can I only get 6 luck as a town regular?

That sort of gaming of the Luck stat is precisely why I made it so Luck is not modifiable at game start.

What mechanics does helmets and armour use? Luck boost for combat only?

Luck no longer affects combat at all. If anything they will decrease the amount of damage sustained per combat round or they will have a % chance of doing so built-in.

Are there rare herbs, and how do they interact with the Botany skill?

There are rare herbs. Once you get your 50/50 shot of landing an herb, if you did get an herb, high luck affects your chances of obtaining a rare herb.

You can search both in the movement round and the interactive round. Does that give 2 search occurences during a single total round? One before you can see how it looks like at your ending place and one when you can see where you ended up?

You can search while moving (if moving slowly) to cover the entire territory you are walking in. You can do a thorough search of the tile you're in plus the 8 tiles around you by searching during the Interactive round.

Walking:

• If you choose Search Mode, you will search all tiles that you cross, as you move.

Running

• You'll only be able to search the tile you arrive at, none of the in-between tiles

Sprinting

• You may not use "Search" mode. You're running too fast to look for anything, and you'll be out of breath when you arrive at your location, you'll be forced to rest rather than search anything.

So if you Sprint, you cannot even Search at all.

If you Run or Walk, doing a search at your new location is clearly superior than not doing so, given you're searching the tile and the 8 tiles around it.

If you Walk, you're also thoroughly searching every tile you move across, which highly improves your odds of finding a rare item tile or an ultra rare item, since you aren't skipping any tiles whatsoever.

However, if you have already searched a tile, it becomes a tile that yields nothing when you search it.

[Ironside]

I take it that means 6 luck for normal townies.

Do we have any built-in damage reductions if we lose a combat round? I mean late game is 6-10 damage output/person, if the old values are left. A decent luck in the last game gave about 28-56% damage reduction.

Nice buff to stealth. Are zombies searching or not by default (I take it they do search if there's a reason for it)? And how does the horde work? Each zombie get a roll?

Apprciating the list. Always good to have good material for number crunching in a game like this.

[Jarema]

what is (if any) difference between having, lets say, 1 or 3 strength?

[Askthepizzaguy]

what is (if any) difference between having, lets say, 1 or 3 strength?

There is, frankly, no difference.

4 strength is the first time you got a noticeable difference, which is a boost to melee combat. The next boost is at 7 strength, for melee combat.

5 strength will be the minimum needed to bust down any doors or into any windows in the city. This refers to ordinary unmarked buildings like offices and residences.

6 strength will be the minimum needed to bust down any important landmarks or whatever, however most key buildings require more strength than that.

I will have buildings that require 7, 8, 9, and 10 strength to open. (These will have keys to open, you have to have massive strength to ignore the key requirement)

So therefore, if you put any points into Strength, it should be a minimum of 4 or 5.

Otherwise it is a dump stat.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I take it that means 6 luck for normal townies.

Do we have any built-in damage reductions if we lose a combat round? I mean late game is 6-10 damage output/person, if the old values are left. A decent luck in the last game gave about 28-56% damage reduction.

You now need armor-type items to reduce damage. Luck no longer serves that purpose.

Last game, luck was simply the most important stat by far, much too powerful. Now, it cannot be modified and only affects rare item rolls.

This is a necessary change for game balance purposes.

Nice buff to stealth. Are zombies searching or not by default (I take it they do search if there's a reason for it)? And how does the horde work? Each zombie get a roll?

Non-player character zombies with the exception of El Gigante do not "search".

So, even if your Stealth rating is PATHETIC, you have a reason to hide. You can in fact escape zombies by hiding. However, you're correct, each zombie gets a roll, meaning having 1 stealth point versus the most basic NPC zombie which starts off with 3 in every stat, means you have a two point disadvantage.

Looking at the chart for a not-searching stealth roll at a 2 point disadvantage:

1 versus 10= 25% chance of remaining hidden, opponent has 75% chance of finding you
2 versus 9= 30% chance of remaining hidden, opponent has 70% chance of finding you
3 versus 8= 40% chance of remaining hidden, opponent has 60% chance of finding you
4 versus 7= 50% chance of remaining hidden, opponent has 50% chance of finding you
----------------------Right in here is the 2 point disadvantage---------------------------------
5 versus 6= 60% chance of remaining hidden, opponent has 40% chance of finding you
5 versus 5= 75% chance of remaining hidden, opponent has 25% chance of finding you
6 versus 5= 80% chance of remaining hidden, opponent has 20% chance of finding you
7 versus 4= 90% chance of remaining hidden, opponent has 10% chance of finding you
8 versus 3= 100% chance of remaining hidden, opponent has 0% chance of finding you
9 versus 2= 100% chance of remaining hidden, opponent has 0% chance of finding you
10 versus 1= 100% chance of remaining hidden, opponent has 0% chance of finding you

Means it's between 1 and 3 points disadvantage. While it's not specifically stated here, that amounts to a 45% chance of the zombie spotting you.

This means even the most PATHETIC stealth rating has a nearly 50/50 chance of avoiding being spotted by each zombie.

Obviously if any of them spot you, you're screwed. But that's an appreciable chance of avoiding combat altogether, especially in the early game when the horde is not concentrated, but scattered.


Dead players who are zombies do in fact have the ability to Search. And they will be more powerful than the starting zombies.

Therefore, if zombies begin exhibiting intelligent and more aggressive, ambush-y behavior, you know you're dealing with a fellow player.

Mwaahahahaha

[Askthepizzaguy]

El Gigante does not search unless 50% (or more) of the players in the group that he is chasing are hiding. Then he searches because he smells many more people than he can see.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Playing guide for new players:

1. Almost all of you will begin ill-equipped for the dangers ahead of you. If you do not find health items, armor, or information, at the very least, it may be difficult for you to survive, or know where you should go. If you do not find a weapon, odds are very good you won't win many battles, if any. Searching early is probably crucial, but...

2. You are vulnerable when you're searching, and especially if you are alone and unarmed. It is also a viable strategy to find yourself an ally, to watch over you while you search, in defensive mode, moving slowly, for the combat bonuses, etc., and vice-versa, once you have a weapon. However, like most strategies in a game like this, there are positives and negatives. The big negative is you do not know who you can trust... or who among you is still fully human.

3. Key buildings and landmarks are typically places which can bring you greater positives or negatives than the average location. These buildings will contain keys, weapons, special items, or information that is very useful in helping you escape, but there are downsides. For example, everyone knows where the key buildings and landmarks are, and that means heavy traffic. Heavy traffic means larger groups of people. More people means more chances someone in the group isn't human at all, or is hostile to your group. And of course....

4. Large groups of people attract zombies, and most especially and dangerously, El Gigante. A large group is the primary target of the zombie team. Their goal is to inflict damage, and they do not care if they die, because there are ALWAYS MORE OF THEM. You cannot wipe them all out. That is why they wish to attack the largest possible groups of people. You must be well-equipped because large numbers of heat-generating, alive-smelling bodies attract zombies, and El Gigante in particular, is an extremely dangerous and effective crowd-busting device. More than that, El Gigante is even harder to kill than the previous iteration.... and just as deadly.

5. Some buildings contain nothing but more zombies. You have been warned. Searching may result in being ambushed by zombies that were once trapped behind those walls. Being equipped and prepared before trying to break into buildings in this zombie-infested city is a grand idea.

6. There will be story-related and player-triggered events which will cause your entire situation to change. Specifically, the strength of the zombie horde may massively increase at any given moment. You will be warned when this happens. The behavior of the zombies will also change over time.

7. There are players whose only motive is to slay as many people as possible, and have the means of doing so right from the start of the game, and therefore you may be ambushed or shot at, at any given time, and die suddenly. This is not meant to be a cakewalk. Every second you are alive in this game could be your last. Understand this above all else.

8. The first time you lose all your vitality points, you automatically win the "luck" toss and survive with 1 vitality remaining. You cannot die the first time you are attacked, no matter how effective your attacker, as long as you choose the option to FLEE FROM COMBAT IMMEDIATELY. This guarantees your survival as long as you haven't reached zero vitality yet. From then onward, your luck is at the mercy of unforgiving fate. It's a 50/50 toss, and you die when you lose it.

9. Strength is a substitute for finding keys, in most cases. If you have massive strength, you can open almost any door. Otherwise you have to move on foot to several destinations, which increases the amount of time it takes for you to solve the game and find an escape route. That gives the zombies more opportunities to eat you, and for others to find you. It is not strictly necessary to have a strength higher than 1, but it helps.

10. Stealth is a substitute for vitality, if you have massive stealth, and elect to flee from battles, it is possible for you to avoid detection and sneak through much of the dangers before you, conserving your health and covering ground more safely, if not more swiftly. Stealth is still a viable method of escape from zombies even if it is at 1, so it is not necessary to have a stealth higher than one.

11. You can outrun the zombies if you sprint. Speed is a substitute for combat, against the zombies anyway. Therefore it's not necessary to have a combat rating higher than 1.

12. Having high combat, even if you are unarmed, allows you to dodge damaging attacks. It helps you not die. But as mentioned, you can win the game with a 1 for combat, assuming you avoid battle, escape from battle, heal yourself regularly, or have lots of hit points.

13. Having high search allows you to find items and armor and health, and shouldn't be neglected, but even a poor searcher has a 50/50 shot at finding something, and a 100 percent chance of finding any key items in tiles they have full access to (open buildings, or key items laying in plain sight). Therefore even someone with a search of 1 can win the game.

14. It's not recommended to have a vitality of 1. However, since you have a 50/50 shot of surviving all lethal blows, and some blows cause like 4-5 damage anyway, having high vitality is not miles and miles more safe than having only 1 vitality. You just have a chance to heal yourself and survive more non-lethal blows. Having a vitality of one means the zombies are a lot more dangerous to you than anyone else, since a horde is almost guaranteed to hit you at least once or more.

Playing the game on Nightmarish Difficulty:

15. If you do set your maximum vitality to 1, I will give your final score a bonus multiplier for every round you survive. That specific bonus is: your final score will be multiplied by 1.01, cumulatively, for every single round you are alive. So, for example, if your final score is 100 (to demonstrate percentages), and the bonus is 1.01, and you somehow died immediately, your score is now 101. You survive the first two rounds (1 cycle), it is now 102.

Vitality of 1 Non-survival Final Score bonus multiplier

Movement Phase 1- 101
Interactive Phase 1- 102
Movement Phase 2- 103
Interactive Phase 2- 104
(etc) see spoiler for full breakdown of your multiplier.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

101%
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164%

16. If you survive the game, free yourself, and escape, with an original maximum vitality of 1, that final total score (after multipliers) is then DOUBLED on top of everything else, given the extreme unlikelihood of you surviving.

And a hearty congratulations.

Still, I wouldn't try this unless you really like being dead.

17. Remember, you score well if your team does. Do things that help your team, not just yourself. Team scoring is very important. But, if you think you can score better on your own...

Playing for maximum evils:

18. If you are a Town Survivor, but think you will score better this way, you can elect to turn yourself evil and play as if you were a serial killer. Your objective is to kill the most people possible, and be the last Town Survivor standing at the end of the game, and if possible, the last Player remaining in Southgate. If you elect to play the game this way, your points scored on every round after your elected to turn evil is doubled. In order to do this, you cannot be Leon S. Kennedy or a Town Defender, and you must send me an order to turn evil. Once you go down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny. You must know that you can never be turned from the dark side. If you are the last town survivor standing, your score (after you turn evil, and then onward) will be tripled instead of doubled. If you are the last person standing in Dark Falls, your score (after you turn evil, and then onward) will be quadrupled instead of doubled or tripled. Note that if you turn Serial Killer, your points for escaping from Southgate are severely reduced, so your incentive is to remain in Southgate and be the last one standing from your team, and overall. Also, you can assist your Town Survivor teammates in escaping, to boost your Team Score. You can be an evil, ruthless bastard and still play for your team, it's just that most of the people you'll be able to kill are your own teammates, and some of them will be able to detect that you are a threat that must be eliminated, and then they will try to eliminate you.

Caveat 1: if you elect to turn evil and then never do anything evil, or attempt to kill anyone, I will unilaterally decide that you haven't actually turned evil and there will be no bonus. Convince me you're evil.

Caveat 2: If you betray your own teammates, the violence that transpires will be part of the public writeup. It may be difficult to convince people to trust you when there are tales of betrayals all over the public writeup. They won't know you did it unless they're a police detective, but violently betraying your fellow survivors should make everyone more wary.

Playing to win normally:

19. Achieve as many of your objectives as possible, get as many of your team out of Soutgate alive as possible, personally survive, never stop sending in orders even if you die, destroy as many hostiles as possible, open as many buildings as possible, find as many rare or unique items as possible, etc. Even if you fail, each round that you spend achieving something that could conceivably help you or your team win the game will earn you points. The specific point bonuses will be announced.

20. Every round you send in an order is a large amount of points. Missing orders is missing out on a great number of points. Participation points are usually much higher than any other point bonuses you can find, so continue participating even if you think you're not doing well. You can still score well if you keep playing and trying.

21. Your team's finish will give you a bonus multiplier to your final score. If your team achieves victory first, second, third, etc, you get different multipliers. If your team does not win, but outlasts other teams, it is ranked accordingly. The serial killers achieve a similar multiplier among themselves and are ranked accordingly, as they have no "team".

22. If El Gigante dies, moving in groups becomes a much stronger tactical decision than before. Slaying him early could be massively beneficial to your team, even if you die in the process.

23. Avoid battles you cannot win. Fighting a losing battle to the death means you're dead, so good job, hero.

24. Some members of your team are strategically more valuable than others. Keep them alive as best you can.

25. Never give up.

[Zack]

25. Never give up.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza, what does El Gigante and the zombies consider a group? Is it only people in the same tile, the same zone of control, or just the same general area?

A "group" is defined as the largest concentration (within 1 tile of the center of mass) of a "chain" of people.

A "chain" of people is any group of people linked contiguously by others in adjacent tiles or the same tile.

So, if there are 3 people in one tile connected to one person in another tile connected to one person in yet another tile connected to two people in the final tile, the "center of mass" is the person connected to the three people, and the one person, and that's where El Gigante will strike. The two people are too far away from the center of mass to be impacted by the battle.

So 3 connected to 1 connected to 1 connected to 2, the largest concentration that El Gigante can hit is by landing on this guy highlighted in blue:

So 3 connected to This Guy Right Here connected to 1 connected to 2

Because then El Gigante can hit the following:

So These three connected to This Guy Right Here connected to This last guy connected to 2 who are too far away

Gets 5 out of 7. Assuming El Gigante can move that far.

[Askthepizzaguy]

A normal battle takes place within 1 tile (in all directions) of the aggressor's target. Anyone who is allied to or directly attacked by the aggressor will be involved. Anyone who is allied to the target(s) is involved as well, provided they are within the 1-tile radius. (9 tiles affected)

Sniper battles only involve the sniper and his target, who returns fire if that target also has a sniper weapon. No one else is involved with that unless they also have a sniper weapon and are within 1 tile of the aggressor's target.

[Askthepizzaguy]

But at what number is a group targetted?

Referring to El Gigante.

He targets whoever is the largest single chain of players. If that chain scatters, he targets the next largest. Just like the previous game.

Anytime El Gigante attacked it was always a large group. This is meant to make the players scatter and be vulnerable to the zombies.

If you flee from battle, there's a chance you will be forced to move in the opposite direction you were just moving in, forcing you to backtrack.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Thanks to everyone asking questions. It's helping me to spew out the data that you guys need, some of which might not occur to me to post, simply because I've got all the info in my head but it's not all on my mind at once, and sometimes I'll forget pieces that you need.

I will gather up and format neatly all the game-related stuff from this pregame discussion thread that I posted and put it in a single post in the game discussion and story threads. That way it will be easier to find.

[Ironside]

Only the awareness radius from the search stat is left for full stat crunching I think.

"Recieves a char with preset stats." Well... thank you.



Edit: I hope that armour is more common this game than the last one though. One failed combat round=death is a bit scary.

(It also implies that the "las plagas" faction can also gain strength with time).

[Askthepizzaguy]

Only the awareness radius from the search stat is left for full stat crunching I think.

"Recieves a char with preset stats." Well... thank you.

Oh yeah. The awareness radius is X,

X+1 for being on a building's roof

X+2 for being on a building's roof with a sniper weapon (or similar sight-extending device)

What is X? Uh.... hmmm

Ok.

Consider the tile you are in, and your zone of control, and extend those nine tiles outward by one additional tile in all directions except diagonally.

What you get then is the "Big Fat Cross" from Civilization IV, right? That's nine tiles plus 12 tiles, making 21 tiles within your line of sight. Basically, 2 tiles away from your location, minus the 4 far corner tiles, meaning 2 away diagonally.

On a building's roof means add 1 further tile around that. 37 tiles in total.

Sniper rifle means 1 more tile around that. 57 tiles in total.

I'll have graphics which depict these radii when I get the rest of my stuff done.

[Ironside]

So it's non stat dependent this time. Good to know, even if it means that the zombies will see as well as you, unless you scout on the roof.

A recheck and a question.
The recheck is that you search on the move, get a green herb, and finds the place good to make a search and get a rare golden gun. That's how it works correct? You described the more advanced mechanics above, but that's the basics, correct?

The question is about stealth and search. Does a normal search also search for stealthed person? If yes, how will it interact with the stealthed person?
Search and destroy will always attack the stealthed person, with a first strike I assume? Is there any differences in how many squares that are searched?

If I'm stealth moving, I should probably announce my presence if the townie squad looks friendly to avoid accidental conflict if I'm correct?

[Askthepizzaguy]

So it's non stat dependent this time. Good to know, even if it means that the zombies will see as well as you, unless you scout on the roof.

A recheck and a question.
The recheck is that you search on the move, get a green herb, and finds the place good to make a search and get a rare golden gun. That's how it works correct? You described the more advanced mechanics above, but that's the basics, correct?

Yeah, you'll be able to search twice if you do a thorough search at your location.

Think back to the previous game, and consider if everyone was forced to not move every other round, but otherwise interacted with the environment and each other.

It's like that, and you can't realistically interact with the environment if you doubled your movement by sprinting. You just spent all your time running.

There are bonuses, real ones, for taking your time to stop and smell the roses.

In this game, running as fast as you can to escape from danger or cross the map quickly should be seen as a massive compromise, which affects your ability to do well. A last resort, if you will. But a viable option to outpace all but the most determined dangers nonetheless.

The question is about stealth and search. Does a normal search also search for stealthed person? If yes, how will it interact with the stealthed person?

Searching will attempt to find hidden things. If those hidden things happen to be zombies trapped behind a wall or door they don't know how to open, or someone deliberately trying to hide from view, or ambush you, then yes, it's all the same as a hidden object.

How you interact with the stealthed person is directly related to your battle choices. Do you attack humans? Strangers? Non humans?

Remember your choices. Do you attack people first?

I use that choice here. You've got the first strike. Do you kill or not?

Search and destroy will always attack the stealthed person, with a first strike I assume? Is there any differences in how many squares that are searched?

Search and destroy will attack the people you told me to attack.

If you say only kill non-humans, you can search and destroy and never hit a frightened unarmed woman.

I'm not completely heartless. Just braiiiiinnnnless. You have to tell me precisely what to do.

And no, Search and destroy is the same as a search. It just attacks anyone you didn't tell me not to attack.

If I'm stealth moving, I should probably announce my presence if the townie squad looks friendly to avoid accidental conflict if I'm correct?

You can choose to do so, but I cannot tell you what you *should* do, because that could be absolutely bad advice.

Or it could be good advice. And I don't want to give you or anyone else any advice beyond what I said in the playing guide I posted publicly. Everyone should get a square deal.

I could tell you from a host perspective what seems like a logical move, but I'm the host. I want you to be able to make mistakes.

Host perspective has insights that probably shouldn't be shared, for the game to be challenging.

[johnhughthom]

Sorry Pizza, I'm out.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sorry Pizza, I'm out.

Sorry to see you go, john.

[tmleafs1967]

sup

get back here john, u can't cut out so early to game start.......oh the prawnory

[Askthepizzaguy]

And then there were 51.

Soon, I will convince Visorslash to re-join and there will be 52 again.

I just hope people don't randomly decide to drop out once the game actually begins...

[Montmorency]

You were in one of my dreams recently, Pizza (don't take that the wrong way).

I believe you had a classy waxed mustache (don't take that the wrong way) -

or maybe it was a pedo-stache... (don't take that the wrong way)

[Askthepizzaguy]

You were in one of my dreams recently, Pizza (don't take that the wrong way).

I believe you had a classy waxed mustache (don't take that the wrong way) -

or maybe it was a pedo-stache... (don't take that the wrong way)

It was a Trebek-stache, Celebrity Jeopardy style.

And after we slayed the Nazgul together, and pwned Clint Eastwood and Chuck Norris with both hands tied behind our backs, we collapsed on a tuft of long grass and commenced with the act that dare not speak its name:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Wearing white after labor day.

[Askthepizzaguy]

*raises fist, shakes it furiously*

GANDALF!!!!

[Montmorency]

Wearing white after labor day.

Is that a euphemism for that Japanese fetish?

[Double A]

Is that a euphemism for that Japanese fetish?

That's like saying "That one German principality."

[Zack]

Is that a euphemism for that Japanese fetish?

That would be wearing brown after Labor Day.

[Askthepizzaguy]

*girlish squeal*

Role PMs are 90% complete and after that all I gotta do is the map aesthetics! Woot the Woot!

Just gotta dig deep and push through the Umbrella and SynTech PMs.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Boomshakalaka.

That's done except for about 5 minutes of description writing.

All that remains is one team's role PMs. Just one more team.

Then I can send those out to you, and you can drool, drool my little minions, drool... drool over your role PMs.

And then I can finish the map stuff while you're doing that, and also kick the game into "Prologue" round.

Yippie!

The Prologue round is where you can discuss stuff with your team (if you are sanctioned to do so) and plan your strategy, as well as familiarize yourself with the rules and mechanics and ask questions.

Mainly though, you will be told precisely where you begin on the map, and then you tell me where to allocate your stat points.

Once everyone gets back to me on that, it's Round One, and all bets are off.

[Askthepizzaguy]

That's the last team. I have reached the peak of the mountain.

Now I'm taking a well-earned nap.

[Montmorency]

To clarify: there's nothing in this thread or elsewhere that isn't in the Story Thread, right? The Story Thread is just what we need to read through to understand what to do and how to do it, right?