Reviews

[quadalpha]

Eurogamer: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...-rome-2-review

Then a close zoom on a fight between a unit of chariots and elephants reveals that they have parked beside each other and seem to be engaged in a staring contest. I send in the cavalry, zoom a little more and, casual as anything, a floating horse glides sideways into the action.

The game has also had its AI revamped, and I'm pleased to report that it's somewhat cannier. While it was previously all too vulnerable to kiting - where entire armies could be distracted by one or two harassing units - it's now perhaps a little too stoic. It better recognises its advantage in defensive situations, standing firm when it knows it can hurt you, and it enjoys trying to wear your troops out by forcing you to make chase, by trying to keep your forces engaged and by attacking with fresh units. On occasion, it's a victim of its own stubbornness, with enemy defenders stood like mannequins in a mall, refusing to budge when their participation could swing a skirmish. Battles are fun, but still sometimes very dumb.

On the campaign map, it does worse, sometimes attacking with substantially smaller forces that have little hope of tasting victory. It will fail to press advantages or try to break sieges that it has a good chance of lifting. Tugging the difficulty slider up doesn't make it any more sensible, though it does at least make your own citizens increasingly fickle, raising the possibility of revolt at home.

I said that Total War: Rome 2 is a slow game and this comes in part from how mindfully you have to expand your would-be empire. The ancient world is made up of many different cultures and not all of these are keen to bend to your will, requiring particular technological advances and cooing dignitaries to placate them. At the same time, empires have hard limits on the number of agents, armies and fleets they can support, further tempering their growth.

RPS: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013...l-war-rome-ii/

Sadly, Rome II has taken on board some of Empire’s vices and, while it is in many ways an exceptionally well-crafted game, it is a misstep of sorts. Engage the Irony Alarm – Rome II is a game that reaches too far and wide, creaking under its own weight.

On the whole, the regional management aspect of the game has probably seen the most improvement since Shogun 2. It effectively asks the player to think intelligently, to plan long-term and to provide their growing empire with character and guile.

[stuff about crap AI]

It’s unfortunate that the chances to carry out such movements is rare. The map is huge but limited, presented as a series of corridors between forests and mountains rather than an open place. There’s an obvious benefit – it’s much easier for the developers, and indeed players, to control the flow of armies, making blockades, ambushes and tactical retreats far more common than they might be otherwise. The world does feel more cramped than I would have liked though. All roads may eventually lead to Rome, but there are only a couple leading out of it.

[Lemur]

From the RPS comment section, some questions that get answered re optimization:

Q: What are the loadtimes like? Shogun 2 was unplayable without endless autoresolves later on, even with an SSD.
A: I can tell you they are much quicker than Shogun 2. (I reviewed the game also)
Q: What was the average loadtime for the battles?
A: Load times are alright, but it’s ponderous between turns when calculating AI moves (over a minute late campaign). I moved it to an SSD to see if it helped and it didn’t really.

[BroskiDerpman]

http://www.twitch.tv/psponge

Watching this, confirms most of my criticisms.

[Lemur]

http://www.twitch.tv/psponge

Watching this, confirms most of my criticisms.

Actually, looks pretty good from what I'm seeing.

Also, I have some freelance work I need to deliver first thing in the AM, so the hell with this guy streaming his campaign. Very irritating as I sit here trying to work. How dare he.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Watching this, confirms most of my criticisms.

Could you explain this a bit? I watched the video and psponge played that like a newbee, IMHO. Out numbered, yes, but one does not stand in a static position when faced with greater numbers and expect to win (unless you have some commanding positional advantage, which obviously was not the case).

I thought the review at rockpapershotgun was fair, touching on what the player both liked and disliked.

Though the game will be instantly recognisable to players of the first Rome, The Creative Assembly has made a few additions, with varying degrees of success. Very welcome is the chance to issue instructions to your allies, which can have them attacking a mutual enemy in a particular location, while a new, detailed encyclopedia that covers just about everything in the game is much appreciated.

This is very much an improvement, making allies into something more than mere trading partners....

Less noteworthy is a system for allowing armies to gain traits, along with their leaders, as these offer some strangely stingy bonuses. This is a game that seriously asks you, after a series of victories, whether it's your archers or your infantry that you want to be 3% more dangerous. Naturally, a campaign of many decades presents the opportunity for multiple traits to stack and form more significant bonuses - but while the game's presenting you difficult choices in city management, these just look silly, making you feel like the pettiest of emperors.

3% is a rather silly boost

By themselves, none of the things that are wrong with Total War: Rome 2 are that big a deal. If the game itself were an empire, a map upon a wall, we'd note some gains and some losses, glossing over most of the tinier problems because they don't spoil the larger picture. We also might note the stagnation of that empire. For all that the game may have promised, it isn't such a big step forward for the series. It's Total War done a bit bigger, a bit better and a bit different. Its borders hold firm.

And this guy says pretty much the same as the other.....some good things, some not so good.

[Lemur]

PC Gamer

Verdict: Fight past the niggles and you'll find a truly epic grand strategy game with a tremendous sense of spectacle. Go, see, conquer. 85%

bitgamer

While Total War had its roots in Shogun, Rome has generally been the most fondly remembered entry, considered the high point of the series and the game's natural home. Rome II had an awful lot to live up to, and it does this with the easy confidence of one of the game's own Champions standing in front of an entire army, sword drawn. It's truly an extraordinary creation; vast yet intimate, complex yet accessible, diverse yet cohesive, and vastly different while still recognisably Total War. Say goodbye to your life as you knew it, because the Romans are coming, and things won't ever be the same. 96%

[Vuk]

Well, looks like the naysayers were right this time.

[Lemur]

Related: A reviewer (who has played the almost-release build, natch) is doing an AMA on Reddit right now.

[BroskiDerpman]

Pathfinding, unit collision, silly combat mechanics, exploits and bugs carried over from Shogun 2 (Cav drag, Missile shuffle). Wonder if you guys even pay close attention when your units bug out... Shattered unit bug is really annoying too.

Oh drop hacking too, been there since Empire.

A small percent boost in Shogun 2 quickly grows and you could have super Ashigaru eventually.

Our men are shuffling from the battlefield! SHAMEFUL DISPLAY!

[Lemur]

Sorry, but I find any attempt to declare Rome II a failure and/or masterpiece kinda premature.

However, if anyone wants to pat themselves on the back ... eh ... well-done? You successfully passed judgment on a game that isn't even in release patch. Hail, bravo, excelsior, and strike up the band.

[BroskiDerpman]

Just statin' some bugs mister.

[fallen851]

Sorry, but I find any attempt to declare Rome II a failure and/or masterpiece kinda premature.

Well, I've read the reviews. They do declare Rome II a success, but it is not without bugs. And that is all I needed to know.

The Total War Series is great, it offers a lot. But for old veterans, this is the same old game with new graphics. We're sick of the terrible path finding and AI. We're sick of the crashes and pressing end turn and waiting for minutes on end. The games just never feel complete, never feel polished, at least the ones I've played.

For people new to the series, this game will be amazing. Old veterans of the TW series have waited through turns, endured crashes, played all kinds of battles, and demolished the AI. We are tired of the flaws that make TW games a chore rather than fun at some point, and CA doesn't seem to fix them. Instead they just add new features and fancy graphics. In short, I feel many of the TW games are flawed at their core; the novelty of the graphics and features wears off eventually, and they don't redeem the game when it just isn't challenging or stable in the end. So it really impresses people when you first play, but over time the issues wear you down, and you give up. It simply isn't a great game, it is just a good game with amazing graphics that could be great. The addition of the naval battles even left one reviewer auto resolving them after a period, because they were simply eye candy with little tactics or strategy involved.

That is why Rome II at this moment is a failure in my eyes. But new people, they'll hail it as a great success. Hopefully CA will patch it appropriately, but if their history with Rome I is any indication, the game will be left unfinished.

[BroskiDerpman]

Amen. That sums up my thoughts as well. Though I would go a little further but there's no need to as of now when the core game needs to be fixed.

[Wilbo]

For me, the reviews have been very positive. The main complaint relates to bugs, but I'm sure these will be fixed post release - Shogun 2 is very stable and has very little wrong with it at all, in my opinion. I'm a touch apprehensive about the 'shallow' diplomatic model, but suspect that CA will have done a good job and so am looking forward to finding out myself.

With regards to the complaints by various members of this forum, I've clocked hundreds of hours across the various Total War games and have rarely been bothered by poor AI or pathfinding, so I expect it won't be an issue with Rome 2 either.

Roll on tomorrow: I have Samnites to conquer.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Just statin' some bugs mister.

Dude.....that's about all you and several others do here. I, for one, am growing extremely weary of the constant nagging and nit-picking.

Yep....the game, and indeed the series, has many flaws and bugs. No question about it. Some are minor, some quite serious. But I don't need to be reminded all the time about how much eye-candy there is in the game; about path-finding bugs; about unit cohesion; blah-blah-blah

If you don't like the friggin' game, play something else....or offer your services to CA to help them correct the games' deficiencies.

Just please stop making every thread that gets posted into a rant about how crappy CA and their games are.

End of

P.S. If you would like a challenge from the AI; decent unit balance (with some very minor tweaking); epically long battles (some can go on for nearly two hours); and battlefields that actually require you to use tactics...........................play the original Shogun. Or better yet, play its' modded version Samurai Warlords. I guarantee you will be crying about the game for a much different reason

[BroskiDerpman]

I wonder if you actually played Shogun 2, every battle I've played had a bug or exploit in it. Cav drag, fund bug, tosa shuffle, unlimited sea travel, clicking a unit in reserve to charge with cav sends the cav through two units (Even spear unit in front) and wiping out most of both units. LoS issues, skill tree bonuses bugged out.

This is not including ai or pathfinding, balance, battle mechanics, and ui issues. (Let's not get to authenticity shall we?)

Battle mechanics can take a book from NTW 3 or ER mod with more emphasis on keeping unit cohesion and stamina, grand scale movements, more usage of reserves to press areas, more uses of deeper ranks etc, etc.

Balance, in any good tournament there's quite a lot of rules which restrict certain units or builds because of how poorly balanced units are.

Poor pathfinding has cost me many sieges...

@RS

You know I'm allowed to post what I want as long as I don't try to openly insult other people right?



Also, I like TW games simply for the risk style play as in Med1.

Oh I will play a ton of other games and mods...

Oh, why work for CA? Not interested in moving or getting paid less than my dad...

You want to play something slow balanced and interesting like table top try NTW3 mod.

Also not every thread I posted in was a rant about TW Geeze...

[Wilbo]

While that is true, your repeated complaints are extremely tiresome.

Having seen your list of bugs / exploits, I've not noticeably suffered from any of them in single or multiplayer, so am surprised they affect your enjoyment so much.

I recommend avoiding their use, then they probably won't bother you.

[BroskiDerpman]

I got my avatar corrupted and the other one withe the skill tree bonus not active.

[ReluctantSamurai]

You know I'm allowed to post what I want as long as I don't try to openly insult other people right?

Of course I do. That is not my point. I am not the type of poster that constantly belabors a point, and it's irritating to me when someone else does it. You've made your points in numerous posts. Some of what you and several others here say are certainly valid criticisms and some of which I agree with. But.........

..............move on to something else, please.

Also not every thread I posted in was a rant about TW Geeze...

I know. I was just in rant mode.

You want to play something slow balanced and interesting like table top try NTW3 mod

I simply hate that era of military history. When I want something slow and balanced, I play Samurai Warlords or the original Shogun.

[BroskiDerpman]

I see and I respect your differing opinion. Every time I post a criticism I make sure to add a few new bugs or exploits I know of to keep it fresh. XD

Though I will press many of the same things as that's what I'm bugged about for quite a while.

[fallen851]

Dude.....that's about all you and several others do here. I, for one, am growing extremely weary of the constant nagging and nit-picking.


If you don't like the friggin' game, play something else....or offer your services to CA to help them correct the games' deficiencies.

Just please stop making every thread that gets posted into a rant about how crappy CA and their games are.

The pursuit of excellence is one of the few things in this world you can't denounce from any angle. And this criticism was written voluntarily and given freely.

We all want TW to be the best ReluctantSamurai, and you don't get there by apologizing for or ignoring the core issues the game has had for a long time.

I never said their games were crappy, in fact I said:

The Total War Series is great, it offers a lot.

But then I listed the issues that keeps Total War games from getting higher scores with objective review websites, like PC Gamer. 85% is good, and RTW II I'm sure is a good game. But it isn't up to par with Half Life, or Civilization II, and it could be, if CA focused on fixing the issues I listed.

The more we discuss and "complain" about such issues, the higher the likelihood CA will fix them. They've ignored many attempts in the past to fix their games, despite significant community help:

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...1-5&highlight=

And 1.5 was the last patch for RTW.

So in the end, this is our way of telling CA that maybe they should commit more resources to the "boring" stuff, like coding and AI, and less resources to fancy graphics.

[Barkhorn1x]

Sorry, but I find any attempt to declare Rome II a failure and/or masterpiece kinda premature.

However, if anyone wants to pat themselves on the back ... eh ... well-done? You successfully passed judgment on a game that isn't even in release patch. Hail, bravo, excelsior, and strike up the band.

I have to agree here as no one has played the final release version yet. If the bugs aren't addressed in the day 1 patch then game on. But until then keep your powder dry.

[fallen851]

I have to agree here as no one has played the final release version yet. If the bugs aren't addressed in the day 1 patch then game on. But until then keep your powder dry.

So you don't think CA sent their best to the reviewers?

They'd be crazy not too. PC Gamer has a rule that it only reviews what is sent and doesn't re-review games after patches, ect. CA did not send them an unfinished product, trust me. They sent what will be shipped in just a few hours.

Some of you might be able to overlook the problems the TW series has, and that is fine. But others have a difficult time when other games don't suffer from such issues. That is fine too.

Again, the pursuit of excellence is one of the few things in this world you can't denounce from any angle.

[ReluctantSamurai]

The more we discuss and "complain" about such issues, the higher the likelihood CA will fix them. They've ignored many attempts in the past to fix their games, despite significant community help.

When enough folks have purchased and played the game for awhile, then start a problem/bug-fix thread. Then every one who has a gripe can post there. CA will have the majority of orgah players comments/opinions all in one place. Who knows? Maybe Jack Lusted or one of the other folks from CA who post here from time-to-time can be of help.

[fallen851]

When enough folks have purchased and played the game for awhile, then start a problem/bug-fix thread. Then every one who has a gripe can post there. CA will have the majority of orgah players comments/opinions all in one place. Who knows? Maybe Jack Lusted or one of the other folks from CA who post here from time-to-time can be of help.

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...1-5&highlight=

Or maybe not?

1.5 was the last patch for RTW too.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. You want to bet on CA doing what they haven't done in the past and actually finishing a product. In my opinion, that is a bad bet. However, this is a free country and like Donald Rumsfeld says:

"Freedom's untidy, and free people are free to make mistakes and commit crimes and do bad things."

[ReluctantSamurai]

Or maybe not?

Definitely not. That was for RTW 1. Its' prodigy will need its' own thread right here in the TW: R2 Forum.

[fallen851]

My point was not that the RTW 1 thread would suffice for RTW II... but that CA didn't listen to past problem/bug fix threads, so why bet they will now?

[ReluctantSamurai]

And my point is not that you don't have the right to bitch about things you don't like, but that such discussions should be kept in their own thread (and out of most other discussions) so that anyone who wishes to can peruse to their hearts content.

[quadalpha]

I think there has been a fundamental dissatisfaction about the TW franchise that goes beyond bugs and minor annoyances. This has been masked in the past by other issues, like the massive change of setting for ETW and the excitement over the return to Japan in S2, but there's been a basic difference of vision about what the TW games could be since probably the Sega takeover. There are those of us who look at STW and MTW and see what deep and subtle simulations they could become with modern computing power, but obviously CA have taken a different path. I think, at some level, we have to accept that the bugs and niggles we complain about are things that CA just aren't interested in and won't prioritise. This is nothing against people like Jack Lusted, but there's only so much one or two individuals can do in the face of monolithic corporate culture.

[BroskiDerpman]

I think there has been a fundamental dissatisfaction about the TW franchise that goes beyond bugs and minor annoyances. This has been masked in the past by other issues, like the massive change of setting for ETW and the excitement over the return to Japan in S2, but there's been a basic difference of vision about what the TW games could be since probably the Sega takeover. There are those of us who look at STW and MTW and see what deep and subtle simulations they could become with modern computing power, but obviously CA have taken a different path. I think, at some level, we have to accept that the bugs and niggles we complain about are things that CA just aren't interested in and won't prioritise. This is nothing against people like Jack Lusted, but there's only so much one or two individuals can do in the face of monolithic corporate culture.

As of now I can only imagine how cool and fun of a game a more modern version of Shogun 1 and Medieval 1 be. It simply fits the style of gameplay a TW game is instead of being a jack of all trades strategy game it is now.

With additions from the newer games and upgrades to the older style gameplay... Oh my... Oh my...

To let you guys know just in case you think this is nostalgia, I only started playing Med 1 a few weeks ago.