The RTW II Economy - Research, Tips and Strategies

[ReluctantSamurai]

Just take care to do this to a landlocked settlement, as rebel port cities tend to get blockaded (but not attacked) by AI factions, and permanent stalemate ensues

OTOH, I could see doing this to a faraway port settlement that someone else might desperately need

Cheesy, but what the heck, so are a lot of other things in this game......

[Bramborough]

200 turns in, with associated tinkering of provinces, I'm coming more and more to realize that province specialization is the key. I haven't really figured out the specific formulas, but clearly it's impossible (and probably deliberately so) to fully develop a province's towns/commerce/industry AND also be self sufficient in food. With the limited slots available, just can't be done past Level III. And I don't think that's necessarily a "flaw"...it's supposed to be that way. It kinda makes sense; Rome couldn't have become Rome without drawing tons of resources from across its empire (especially food).

It seems to me that one can balance out a province with Level III buildings...but without much food surplus to contribute elsewhere. Then, introducing a Level IV building into its mix then makes the province reliant on external food...either directly because it requires a lot of food in itself, or indirectly by needing to compensate for its squalor by building other food-consuming public order buildings.

As I've said, I haven't figured out specifics, but my basic idea is that, just as there are different levels of buildings, I'm going to start thinking of "Level II-IV provinces":

Level II Province: Food producer. May not make much money. No buildings higher than Level II (other than perhaps agricultural). The province's function is to provide the food surplus necessary to support the higher provinces.
Level III Province: Self-sufficient in food. Makes decent money, but held back in development so as to not require food imports. No buildings higher than Level III. One could conceivably run the entire empire consisting of only Level III provinces.
Level IV Province: Richest provinces, fully developed with Level IV buildings, and therefore making the most money. To do this, however, the province CANNOT be self-sufficient in food.

The trick will be figuring out how many "Level II" provinces I need to hold back in order to support a "Level IV" province. Will a 1:1 ratio do it? Or will I need 1.5:1 or even 2:1? The other interesting thing is how the tech tree plays into the equation, especially in the way that Level III buildings are available early (or even at start in some cases), while Level IV buildings can take quite a long time. In my own campaign, I've developed the trees roughly equally, and am just now beginning to unlock many of the Level IV buildings. In the meantime, I've also built up my provinces to the "Level III" description, and am now realizing that I may have to "deconstruct" some of them back down to Level II in order to find the food surplus I'm going to need. It would have taken an incredible amount of discipline to deliberately hold back these provinces looking so many turns ahead. Concomitantly, I'm also realizing that the various tech trees may not be quite so independent or even "disconnected" as they first appear. They may not be directly tied to each other, but the buildings/effects they produce are definitely intertwined in developing a functioning empire. On this particular point, we as a community may have been a little prematurely critical of CA.

Note: that last point does not pertain to the ridiculously early achievement of legionary troops. Regardless of what sort of tech development or victory condition which one pursues, it just shouldn't be possible to graduate past hastati/principes/triarii decades before 200BC. Criticism of that one particular feature in the Roman military tech tree is 100% legitimate.

[ReluctantSamurai]

Once again, a very thoughtful post. And the description seems to mirror what one would expect in a RL situation.....outlying agricultural areas providing the subsistence level to their much larger, more developed cousins in the cities. Almost makes me want to go and get the game now just so I can play with the economy (econ was one of my biggest love/hate relationships with R1).

[BroskiDerpman]

Edit: @Posts below

Seriously guys? I wasn't trying being negative. I was just making some suggestions and criticisms; and no I don't want the game right now. You may consider me too vocal but I find it perfectly normal on a TW forum, perhaps a little too silent.

I may have some repetition but each time I try to add something new, I guess nobody bothers about that too and claim that my posts are all repetitive on Ca when there's other people who post that stuff too. Is it because I'm the one who mainly posts? Is it because I'm the main one who has concerns about the game?

Why should I make up flaws too? There are bugs and gameplay issues... My criticisms are only my own tastes and nobody here has to obey it or anything. I am not convincing myself, might as well ask Vuk; He convinced me.

I have interests on this game as it's TW, one of my favorite franchises. Why shouldn't I be concerned? It is in my interests that the TW franchise is still what I think is good. (Of course it's my own opinion.)

All day long? I'm only on when I got to do exercises for spinal stuff. Getting stuck on a traction chair is boring, of course I'm on the forums for a few hours because I'm unable to do anything else! I bought a mobile device just so I won't be bored to death when being in the machine while it does it's work. If I didn't have this disability I wouldn't be roaming the forums all day. (I don't need anybody to feel sorry or anything I just want to make it clear)

[Myth]

Patience is key RS, you got to wait for some patches first! Or when the first expansion gets released/ Holiday sale. You'll probably enjoy the game more that way.

You'll have a better impression of the game that way too instead of waiting for the constant patches completing and fixing the game just to enjoy the game.

Plus there's other games to try out while you wait... ;)

Are you trying to convince us that the game is not worth getting now... or yourself? You have been so vocal about it it makes me think you actually want the game but you're desperatly digging for flaws, real or imagined, to justify not obtaining it.

[Bramborough]

Are you trying to convince us that the game is not worth getting now... or yourself? You have been so vocal about it it makes me think you actually want the game but you're desperatly digging for flaws, real or imagined, to justify not obtaining it.

My thoughts exactly.

There's a bit of a disconnect between, on one hand, professing to believe R2 not worth buying...and then, on the other hand, being one of the R2 forum's most active posters, all day long. That seems like an awful lot of interest, Broski, in a game for which you purport to hold no interest.

[Quillan]

The trick will be figuring out how many "Level II" provinces I need to hold back in order to support a "Level IV" province. Will a 1:1 ratio do it? Or will I need 1.5:1 or even 2:1? The other interesting thing is how the tech tree plays into the equation, especially in the way that Level III buildings are available early (or even at start in some cases), while Level IV buildings can take quite a long time. In my own campaign, I've developed the trees roughly equally, and am just now beginning to unlock many of the Level IV buildings. In the meantime, I've also built up my provinces to the "Level III" description, and am now realizing that I may have to "deconstruct" some of them back down to Level II in order to find the food surplus I'm going to need. It would have taken an incredible amount of discipline to deliberately hold back these provinces looking so many turns ahead. Concomitantly, I'm also realizing that the various tech trees may not be quite so independent or even "disconnected" as they first appear. They may not be directly tied to each other, but the buildings/effects they produce are definitely intertwined in developing a functioning empire. On this particular point, we as a community may have been a little prematurely critical of CA.[/I]

Your experience pretty much mirrors mine. The best food producer seems to be the level 4 farm, which gives 15 food while causing 12 squalor. But that particular tech is in Economy 3; I haven't gotten there yet. I spent way to much time finishing out construction and most of legalism, so I tend to use outlying villages as food producers. Slot one gets a farm, slot two gets a cattle ranch, if it has a port it becomes a fishing port. How far I upgrade depends upon two major factors: do I own the provincial capital (where I can spam happiness buildings) and what buildings can I build there (I really like the gladiator school as Rome; 12 points of happiness for 4 food consumed).

I have to limit military development in order to provide sufficient foot for the empire and keep the provinces happy. But I can't go completely food/happiness or my ability to build good armies goes away.

By the way, has everyone else's experience been that the AI is just incompetent in this regard? Almost every faction at this stage of the game is either constantly having revolts due to unhappiness or can't maintain troops due to attrition because of starvation. They build too many of the wrong buildings and don't have enough happiness, food, or both.

[Shaitan]

...
By the way, has everyone else's experience been that the AI is just incompetent in this regard? Almost every faction at this stage of the game is either constantly having revolts due to unhappiness or can't maintain troops due to attrition because of starvation. They build too many of the wrong buildings and don't have enough happiness, food, or both.

I see this in my campaign too. At first I wondered why other factions armies suffer of attrition in their own land. It is the lacking food.

[nearchos]

The AI is totaly incompetent with balancing the building decisions, ( among uther things), what i tried in my campaign, with 57 my own settlements and 7 of my client states, is i have 4 provinces, (12-16) settlements for food and military training, with high level infrastracture and with 2 full stack armies( from a total of 12) in the area, so when a rabelion is iminent, i moove the army at the spot, with forced march if needed, crash the rebellion. and all over again.
Thwe good think is that since the rebellion, it takes at leest 2 turns for the AI to mone the rebel army, after the increase of the unit naumbers.

[Seyavash]

Besides the number of regions within a province, has anyone noticed much a difference in the food a region or province can produce? I am still trying to sort out which regions are pre disposed to be bread baskets or centers of industry. A better sense of that would go along way toward pre planning.

[Bramborough]

Besides the number of regions within a province, has anyone noticed much a difference in the food a region or province can produce? I am still trying to sort out which regions are pre disposed to be bread baskets or centers of industry. A better sense of that would go along way toward pre planning.

Africa can indeed be a huge breadbasket. At Level II development (long before I started realizing this stuff), that province was pumping out a 40+ food surplus for me. I think a major reason is that all four of its settlements are coastal, therefore it has the four "bonus" port slots. Also, IIRC, one of its minor settlements (Lepcis, I think) builds as a "grain" town, which adds food directly from the city slot. This is hugely helpful; it's not a "free" city food-wise, but definitely a "cheap" one. I later built Africa to Level III with a couple of Level IV buildings, and it surplus obviously dropped, but never approached negative. Although it's going to hurt my income, it's one of the provinces I'm "deconstructing" back to Level II. I need my breadbasket back, as I'm starting to run into factionwide food surplus problems.

Edit: Just now looking at the Interactive Map (thx for linking in separate thread, Hooahguy), Aegyptus has the potential to be an even bigger food producer; two of its four settlements contain the Grain resource and will build as grain towns. Also of note, this province contains two wonders (Lighthouse and Pyramids). Hmm...I haven't taken all of Aegyptus, having been content to let that area be controlled by my client state. Looks like the Nasamones may have to take one for the team now.

I guess this makes perfect sense, as historically Egypt was Rome's main food source during late Republic. This led to its being a focus locale in the struggle between Octavian and Antony, despite its distance from the capital.

http://maps.totalwar.com/

In a more general sense, looks like resources are the key to identifying good ways to specialize a province. Grain obviously helps food production. Haven't really looked, but I suppose iron and timber probably help industry. All resources will boost income to some degree, at least through trade if not some more direct bonus.

[Quillan]

Besides the number of regions within a province, has anyone noticed much a difference in the food a region or province can produce? I am still trying to sort out which regions are pre disposed to be bread baskets or centers of industry. A better sense of that would go along way toward pre planning.

Just a few. First is the number of settlements. Provincial capitals have almost no improvements you can build that generate food; those generally go in the minor settlements. So, a province with 4 towns has higher inherent potential than one with two. Second is how many settlements are coastal. Each coastal town gets one extra slot which can be a port, and a fishing port generates extra food. Finally there is (maybe) a resource. If a region has grain, then the town center building actually produces food instead of consuming it.