The RTW II Economy - Research, Tips and Strategies

[Quillan]

The trick will be figuring out how many "Level II" provinces I need to hold back in order to support a "Level IV" province. Will a 1:1 ratio do it? Or will I need 1.5:1 or even 2:1? The other interesting thing is how the tech tree plays into the equation, especially in the way that Level III buildings are available early (or even at start in some cases), while Level IV buildings can take quite a long time. In my own campaign, I've developed the trees roughly equally, and am just now beginning to unlock many of the Level IV buildings. In the meantime, I've also built up my provinces to the "Level III" description, and am now realizing that I may have to "deconstruct" some of them back down to Level II in order to find the food surplus I'm going to need. It would have taken an incredible amount of discipline to deliberately hold back these provinces looking so many turns ahead. Concomitantly, I'm also realizing that the various tech trees may not be quite so independent or even "disconnected" as they first appear. They may not be directly tied to each other, but the buildings/effects they produce are definitely intertwined in developing a functioning empire. On this particular point, we as a community may have been a little prematurely critical of CA.[/I]

Your experience pretty much mirrors mine. The best food producer seems to be the level 4 farm, which gives 15 food while causing 12 squalor. But that particular tech is in Economy 3; I haven't gotten there yet. I spent way to much time finishing out construction and most of legalism, so I tend to use outlying villages as food producers. Slot one gets a farm, slot two gets a cattle ranch, if it has a port it becomes a fishing port. How far I upgrade depends upon two major factors: do I own the provincial capital (where I can spam happiness buildings) and what buildings can I build there (I really like the gladiator school as Rome; 12 points of happiness for 4 food consumed).

I have to limit military development in order to provide sufficient foot for the empire and keep the provinces happy. But I can't go completely food/happiness or my ability to build good armies goes away.

By the way, has everyone else's experience been that the AI is just incompetent in this regard? Almost every faction at this stage of the game is either constantly having revolts due to unhappiness or can't maintain troops due to attrition because of starvation. They build too many of the wrong buildings and don't have enough happiness, food, or both.

[Shaitan]

...
By the way, has everyone else's experience been that the AI is just incompetent in this regard? Almost every faction at this stage of the game is either constantly having revolts due to unhappiness or can't maintain troops due to attrition because of starvation. They build too many of the wrong buildings and don't have enough happiness, food, or both.

I see this in my campaign too. At first I wondered why other factions armies suffer of attrition in their own land. It is the lacking food.

[nearchos]

The AI is totaly incompetent with balancing the building decisions, ( among uther things), what i tried in my campaign, with 57 my own settlements and 7 of my client states, is i have 4 provinces, (12-16) settlements for food and military training, with high level infrastracture and with 2 full stack armies( from a total of 12) in the area, so when a rabelion is iminent, i moove the army at the spot, with forced march if needed, crash the rebellion. and all over again.
Thwe good think is that since the rebellion, it takes at leest 2 turns for the AI to mone the rebel army, after the increase of the unit naumbers.

[Seyavash]

Besides the number of regions within a province, has anyone noticed much a difference in the food a region or province can produce? I am still trying to sort out which regions are pre disposed to be bread baskets or centers of industry. A better sense of that would go along way toward pre planning.

[Bramborough]

Besides the number of regions within a province, has anyone noticed much a difference in the food a region or province can produce? I am still trying to sort out which regions are pre disposed to be bread baskets or centers of industry. A better sense of that would go along way toward pre planning.

Africa can indeed be a huge breadbasket. At Level II development (long before I started realizing this stuff), that province was pumping out a 40+ food surplus for me. I think a major reason is that all four of its settlements are coastal, therefore it has the four "bonus" port slots. Also, IIRC, one of its minor settlements (Lepcis, I think) builds as a "grain" town, which adds food directly from the city slot. This is hugely helpful; it's not a "free" city food-wise, but definitely a "cheap" one. I later built Africa to Level III with a couple of Level IV buildings, and it surplus obviously dropped, but never approached negative. Although it's going to hurt my income, it's one of the provinces I'm "deconstructing" back to Level II. I need my breadbasket back, as I'm starting to run into factionwide food surplus problems.

Edit: Just now looking at the Interactive Map (thx for linking in separate thread, Hooahguy), Aegyptus has the potential to be an even bigger food producer; two of its four settlements contain the Grain resource and will build as grain towns. Also of note, this province contains two wonders (Lighthouse and Pyramids). Hmm...I haven't taken all of Aegyptus, having been content to let that area be controlled by my client state. Looks like the Nasamones may have to take one for the team now.

I guess this makes perfect sense, as historically Egypt was Rome's main food source during late Republic. This led to its being a focus locale in the struggle between Octavian and Antony, despite its distance from the capital.

http://maps.totalwar.com/

In a more general sense, looks like resources are the key to identifying good ways to specialize a province. Grain obviously helps food production. Haven't really looked, but I suppose iron and timber probably help industry. All resources will boost income to some degree, at least through trade if not some more direct bonus.

[Myth]

Carthage should also be a grain source as it was the main supplier of grain for Rome itself.

[BroskiDerpman]

Indeed, later on it was also the only untouched tax base in the Western Roman Empire and when they lost North Africa everything went down the drain.

Though agriculture was starting to increase in Southern Italy after that.

[Bramborough]

Carthage should also be a grain source as it was the main supplier of grain for Rome itself.

Yes indeed, as reflected by the grain resource in Africa (specifically, Lepcis settlement), of which Carthage is provincial capital.

Looking through the interactive map, it appears that the "grain provinces" are: Aegyptus (2), Africa (1), Magna Grecia (1), Dacia (1), and Mesopotamia (1). These seem historically sensible to me. There's also a few "fish-resource" provinces which I assume also contribute to food.

Gotta admit, I only just now clued in to the existence of these location-specific food resources. The trade resources show up on the strategic map, but I don't think the food resources do (if so, must confess I haven't noticed it). I've seen the "grain town" icons in the province tabs, but I haven't really thought about "hmm...how did they get that way?".

[ReluctantSamurai]

In a more general sense, looks like resources are the key to identifying good ways to specialize a province. Grain obviously helps food production. Haven't really looked, but I suppose iron and timber probably help industry. All resources will boost income to some degree, at least through trade if not some more direct bonus.

Tapping one of the better improvements suggested in another thread...how cool would it then be to have provincial resources tied to industrial capabilities (iron>smithy; cattle>leatherworking; timber>shipbuilding, war machines; marble/stone>advanced building structures, paved roads; etc.

Tie this sort of thing together with diplomacy (I'll trade you my iron for your marble, etc.) and trade partners/alliances might actually come to be far more important than they currently are

[Quillan]

Besides the number of regions within a province, has anyone noticed much a difference in the food a region or province can produce? I am still trying to sort out which regions are pre disposed to be bread baskets or centers of industry. A better sense of that would go along way toward pre planning.

Just a few. First is the number of settlements. Provincial capitals have almost no improvements you can build that generate food; those generally go in the minor settlements. So, a province with 4 towns has higher inherent potential than one with two. Second is how many settlements are coastal. Each coastal town gets one extra slot which can be a port, and a fishing port generates extra food. Finally there is (maybe) a resource. If a region has grain, then the town center building actually produces food instead of consuming it.

[Seyavash]

Just a few. First is the number of settlements. Provincial capitals have almost no improvements you can build that generate food; those generally go in the minor settlements. So, a province with 4 towns has higher inherent potential than one with two. Second is how many settlements are coastal. Each coastal town gets one extra slot which can be a port, and a fishing port generates extra food. Finally there is (maybe) a resource. If a region has grain, then the town center building actually produces food instead of consuming it.

Ok, took me a bit to see the grain resource for Lepcis on the interactive map. I still don't see it as a resource in game so I guess I can use the town center as a way of figuring it out. Of course food is hardly the only thing I was looking at. Another thing was trying decide which ports should be trading ports and which should be military. Since resources seem to be far and few between the thing I am still working on figuring out in general is specialization.

[Backwards Logic]

I think the AI's food and squalor issues are why we don't see huge stacks of armies and mass expansion from the AI players. It's not so much they are 'dumb' and don't want to attack you, it's due to their lack of 'understanding' of food and public order mechanics they are unable to keep large armies from starving and/or keep their populace from revolting. In my game 160 turns in, the 'best' AI's are the ones that control the breadbaskets: the Seleucids in Mesopotamia and the Blemmyes in Aegyptus. The Celtiberian Confederation would have been doing much better, but they keep getting beset by revolts every fifteen turns or so (my spies show their port settlements all having the food boosting port, so they're doing something right). Don't get me wrong, the campaign AI is still bad, but I think it's mostly crippled from their own lack of infrastructure, not because they weren't programmed right to attack people. I'm wondering if they fixed this first before they went after the campaign AI's other decision making (where to move, who to attack, who to trade with, etc), if the game would improve dramatically.