Rome 2 Patches, Hotfixes, Betas and Such (patch 17 live!)

**Sociopsychoactive** · 12-20-2013, 02:07

Originally Posted by Slaists

@Hooahguy, LOL, you hit it right in the bull's eye: the oil is more damaging to the defenders, especially if defending with hoplites. Hoplite phalanx has a "push-forward" programmed into them. So, after a little while, they succeed in pushing the enemy out through the gate. I am not sure exactly where the ownership trigger is located, but it's somewhere inside the gatehouse. Once your men cross that point, the gate ownership passes back to the defender and... the oil starts pouring again right on top of the defenders :)

On the opposite side of the token: as soon as the AI attacker crosses that point from the other side, the gate ownership becomes neutral and the oil stops pouring. In effect, oil rarely kills too many attackers, but is very detrimental to successful defenders.

As far as nerf is considered, patch notes to 7 said the oil damage has been reduced. The biggest nerf for me though is the gatehouse control. Now, it is sufficient for the attacker to get one unit inside the gatehouse to neutralize it despite the defender still having majority within the control radius. Before patch 7, control radius was smaller, and centered more towards the town center so the attacker had to push the defenders away from the gate to neutralize oil.

I don't know about control seen as I've not noticed any significant difference but with patches 7 and 8 I've found boiling oil a great help. If you position a group of cheap spearmen (levee's that can shield screen will do nicely) just inside the gate, not in the gatehouse itself, then you will see hundreds of casualties from the oil. The spearmen are useless at killing, but hold the enemy in position and tangle them up well enough to keep them in range of the oil for a long time. It also works with raorai or triarii if playing as rome. The trick is to not be inside the gatehouse, as then you get burnt too, but just your side of it. For phalanxes you could still do it, but not in phalanx formation. In phalanx formation your troops will indeed push forward, but in normal formation they will only do so if the enemy back off.

**Slaists** · 12-20-2013, 05:29

Originally Posted by Sociopsychoactive

I don't know about control seen as I've not noticed any significant difference but with patches 7 and 8 I've found boiling oil a great help. If you position a group of cheap spearmen (levee's that can shield screen will do nicely) just inside the gate, not in the gatehouse itself, then you will see hundreds of casualties from the oil. The spearmen are useless at killing, but hold the enemy in position and tangle them up well enough to keep them in range of the oil for a long time. It also works with raorai or triarii if playing as rome. The trick is to not be inside the gatehouse, as then you get burnt too, but just your side of it. For phalanxes you could still do it, but not in phalanx formation. In phalanx formation your troops will indeed push forward, but in normal formation they will only do so if the enemy back off.

Probably that's the difference. I tend to put hoplites by the gate (inside the walls) in 1-line phalanx formation (3-4 of them) and entice the AI to attack that formation through the gate. Hoplite phalanxes kill the attacking AI, but also push the AI back through the gates and at that point they get burned by their very own oil. Pulling them back does not work either since then they get slaughtered in their back by the attackers.

**CaptainCrunch** · 12-21-2013, 12:52

Some interesting things I've noticed playing with the 8.1 beta, the CAI seems to be making more post battle adjustments after suffering losses. This was most evident for me in the early game as Epirus on Hard. Initial clashes against Sparta where my levy phalangites and cavalry made the difference, had the Spartans come back with a force composed almost entirely of peiriokoi pikes with some mercenary citizen cavalry. I've literally never seen such a composition in a Spartan army before. When Athens got into the mix, they suffered a catastrophic loss where my cavalry tore their flanks to pieces. They came back with forces led by hippeus heavy lancers with several units of Tarantine merc cav as well.

The AI also seems to be sallying out of non-walled settlements more often to fight in the open ground. CAI allies also seem to come to each others aid faster. Some well played agent actions as well, I've definitely been pleasantly surprised in some regards. Of course it still struggles abysmally in any siege-related affairs, but for the most part I've never noticed this other stuff I mentioned before. Don't know if anyone else has, but I'd be interested to know.

**Slaists** · 12-21-2013, 18:38

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Some interesting things I've noticed playing with the 8.1 beta, the CAI seems to be making more post battle adjustments after suffering losses. This was most evident for me in the early game as Epirus on Hard. Initial clashes against Sparta where my levy phalangites and cavalry made the difference, had the Spartans come back with a force composed almost entirely of peiriokoi pikes with some mercenary citizen cavalry. I've literally never seen such a composition in a Spartan army before. When Athens got into the mix, they suffered a catastrophic loss where my cavalry tore their flanks to pieces. They came back with forces led by hippeus heavy lancers with several units of Tarantine merc cav as well.

The AI also seems to be sallying out of non-walled settlements more often to fight in the open ground. CAI allies also seem to come to each others aid faster. Some well played agent actions as well, I've definitely been pleasantly surprised in some regards. Of course it still struggles abysmally in any siege-related affairs, but for the most part I've never noticed this other stuff I mentioned before. Don't know if anyone else has, but I'd be interested to know.

I think, I've seen this before the patch 8.1. I suspect it is not related to AI trying a different composition but rather to the AI rebuilding its destroyed army to the very latest standards (higher tier barracks, etc.). So, you destroy the AI's starting army and they come back with a stronger one since their barracks had an upgrade.

**Sp4** · 12-22-2013, 02:13

AI armies recruiting a ton of mercs after a loss is also not really new.

**Slaists** · 12-22-2013, 17:48

By the way, guys, what do you see as your current game version? I have beta enabled but I see it as 1.8.0 not 1.8.1... hmm... wondering if the seige patch has made it through for me.