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Thread: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

  1. #61

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Lets not forget the friendly fire from attacking with Romans, in Rome-Med 2 you alt right click, in Empire-Shogun 2 you missile cav if melee enabled will fire until they charge.
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  2. #62

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    I wish the household cards were the family tree.

    I should click on my family tree and have a tree (or several) of members. These members should have bonuses like the household cards. They should have ages so they die eventually. If I need to recruit a general or an admiral they should come from this group and have about the same stats or something similar when they are recruited. This does a few things...

    * A household actually looks more like a household. It gives a better idea of where these people are coming from.

    *It makes it easier to assign household members to fleets/armies. Instead of clicking a fleet and having a huge set of cards pop up where I need to hover over every one to see which is best, I just click from the household window or tree and assign it to one of my way fewer in number generals or admirals

    *It could allow a better training of the household members. Never use a naval household guy like shipwright? Well that lineage dies out or shames themselves into something else. make it so you can't just pick the best military traits of your house. You need to cultivate a good farming line too for when it's needed (see what I did there?)

    *Having us pick our generals and admirals from these guys makes us make tougher choices. Do I leave that awesome bonused guy in my fleet so I can win faster or do I leave him in town to be an admiral soon because my current ones are bad or getting old? If I pick a land based guy to be an admiral he's going to suck and vice versa.

    *Let us assign household members to regions to help us shape the towns a little more. They aren't generals but maybe like mini governors who gave give (very small) bonuses to regions.


    I don't know if any of this is possible or even desired by other members but one of my favorite things was always seeing the household grow and expand. I personally liked Rome I where you had family members who were obviously governors. I don't mind the politics section as it is but it needs fleshing out. My family at a glance consists of one or two guys. We already have this large number of household guys, "just" give them faces names and ages. However complex that would be I don't know but I would probably adore it.

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  3. #63
    The Philosopher Duke Member Suraknar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch View Post
    Units carrying pila can only throw them during an attack charge, they have no way of throwing them without charging like in RTW, where you could set them to Fire At Will and they would automatically throw them at enemies in range. This really hurts in naval battles in particular, where certain 'peltasts' can't throw their javelins unless they're boarding.
    Thank you for clarification :) I have not noticed that behavior, especially in the naval battles. I will pay more attention to that.
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  4. #64
    Member Member Kurisu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    - Factions should be able to negotiate peace agreements between their clients/satrapies and other aggressive states, or use the threat of military action diplomatically against aggressors if they don't back down.
    Still reading the OP, but this reached out and spoke directly to me. "Make peace with..." is sorely missing.

    Wasn't it implicit in Shogun2 that vassals gained a clean slate with belligerents? Lacking some expanded diplomatic options, this would be preferable.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiDamascus View Post
    I wish the household cards were the family tree.

    I should click on my family tree and have a tree (or several) of members. These members should have bonuses like the household cards. They should have ages so they die eventually. If I need to recruit a general or an admiral they should come from this group and have about the same stats or something similar when they are recruited. This does a few things...

    * A household actually looks more like a household. It gives a better idea of where these people are coming from.

    *It makes it easier to assign household members to fleets/armies. Instead of clicking a fleet and having a huge set of cards pop up where I need to hover over every one to see which is best, I just click from the household window or tree and assign it to one of my way fewer in number generals or admirals

    *It could allow a better training of the household members. Never use a naval household guy like shipwright? Well that lineage dies out or shames themselves into something else. make it so you can't just pick the best military traits of your house. You need to cultivate a good farming line too for when it's needed (see what I did there?)

    *Having us pick our generals and admirals from these guys makes us make tougher choices. Do I leave that awesome bonused guy in my fleet so I can win faster or do I leave him in town to be an admiral soon because my current ones are bad or getting old? If I pick a land based guy to be an admiral he's going to suck and vice versa.

    *Let us assign household members to regions to help us shape the towns a little more. They aren't generals but maybe like mini governors who gave give (very small) bonuses to regions.


    I don't know if any of this is possible or even desired by other members but one of my favorite things was always seeing the household grow and expand. I personally liked Rome I where you had family members who were obviously governors. I don't mind the politics section as it is but it needs fleshing out. My family at a glance consists of one or two guys. We already have this large number of household guys, "just" give them faces names and ages. However complex that would be I don't know but I would probably adore it.
    +1 to this post, I agree with its intent 100%. I believe these objectives could be met with a family tree. My one comment is minor: I think the "Household" slot for an individual general is meant to refer to servants, retainers, and/or entourage types of folks, rather than actual family members.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    One to add to the list:

    Edict visibility. Could be done several different ways (faction summary page, strategic map, province list tab, etc)...there needs to be some mechanism whereby the player can, in a single display, see the location and nature of all edicts. Right now, the player has to cycle through each province and look at the little edict button on lower left. This is kinda annoying. Not a big deal early in the campaign with only a couple of provinces and limited edicts available, but when the empire gets big and Imperium level high, gets to be a pain.

    I've started keeping track of my edicts with pencil on a yellow-sticky...I think I shouldn't have to do this.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramborough View Post
    +1 to this post, I agree with its intent 100%. I believe these objectives could be met with a family tree. My one comment is minor: I think the "Household" slot for an individual general is meant to refer to servants, retainers, and/or entourage types of folks, rather than actual family members.
    It is, but I think they could just make them part of the extended family or something.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramborough View Post
    One to add to the list:

    Edict visibility. Could be done several different ways (faction summary page, strategic map, province list tab, etc)...there needs to be some mechanism whereby the player can, in a single display, see the location and nature of all edicts. Right now, the player has to cycle through each province and look at the little edict button on lower left. This is kinda annoying. Not a big deal early in the campaign with only a couple of provinces and limited edicts available, but when the empire gets big and Imperium level high, gets to be a pain.

    I've started keeping track of my edicts with pencil on a yellow-sticky...I think I shouldn't have to do this.
    You should be able to hover over a province and see an edict

  9. #69
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Thanks for all your feedback guys, I'll add the new stuff to the OP. I played some more and I have things to add as well:

    I invaded Egypt as Rome, expecting an epic Casar & Cleopatra fight and drama. I waltzed right through their major cities on the Nile with no opposition apart from the weak garrisons. Only after I had gone a lot furher south along the Nile did Egypt bring it's army - basically a fullstack of warships, and retook 2-3 coastal cities. But it could only support those ships, leaving no food and money for a land army. And 9 experience Pretorians chew marines up for breakfast in a land battle.

    So the AI must prioritize land armies over navies if it can't support at least a 1:1 ratio. 2:1 is better.

    Also, champions are indeed overpowered. Not only is their training action too effective too quickly, they also level up very fast, to the point where + agent levels buildings become meaningless. Why invest in a tier 5 building to get +2 agent levles when that champ will level up to level 6 in a matter of turns?

    I haven't been able to play on Patch 2 as I have been busy, so I hope some of the other issues are resolved. I'm espcially curious about the high-tier buildins rebalance.
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  10. #70

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Lets see.
    Military
    1. Have Hastati upgradable to Principes at 3 Chevrons, and have Principes upgradable to Triarii at 6 Chevrons.
    2. Have Veteran Grade Legions be upgrades of Normal Legions, not a seperate recruitable.
    3. Expand the Tech Tree to include later era tech like the Spatha. Let Barbarians finish out at Migration Era tech, and Romans finish out at late Roman Tech. (Greeks and Easterns move to a Heavy Armoured Horse Archer tech level aka Parthian Byzantine)
    4. Add caps for Elite unit Types as a player handcuff. There is no reason i should be able to field 15 Legions of Praetorians.
    5. Add regional Legions. At the moment it is best to recruit all army units in one specced out region. If you could recruit regional legions (aka Gallic Legions having Better Charge, Italia Legions having better moral, Spanish Legions having better attack, Illyrian Legions having better Pilum Range) there might be a reason to build a barracks somewhere other than Italy.


    Campaign
    1. Expand the tech tree. I want hundreds of Techs that I can research, not a 60ish I want to be able to pick where and how I research, if I want to develop a superior military at the expense of Civilian then I should be allowed to.
    2. Family Tree
    3. 2-4 TPY with seasons.
    4. Squalor: Farms should not give Squalor, factories should.
    5. Food: Temples shouldnt eat 2 farms worth of food. They just shouldnt.
    6. AI Recruitment AI should recruit by job than priority. They should look to recruit 5 line infantry. When they recruit that they should get 2 ranged and 2 horse as priority after that they should look for more line infantry. This would vary by culture/Faction. As it is now, it buys as many stats per coin as it can. Which leads to slinger armies.

    Battle
    1. Get rid of Blobbing. Roman/Greek/Eastern Units should keep formation.
    2. Guard mode Toggle. If I want the units to stay and hold formation they should, if I want them to attack anything in range they should.
    3. Defensive Pilum. Units with Javelins should have a fire at will button.
    4. AI can't calculate battles very well. It thinks that my half stack of boosted Praetorians (~150 Attack 100+ Armour ~150 Moral) would be destroyed by 2 stacks of Levy Spearmen. I can just faceroll charge into them and my PGs will eat them alive in an instant.
    5. Celtic Longswords are only 5 AP Damage (the Minimum) Should be at least 10 due to the blunt force of those weapons alone.
    6. Magic abilities like Use the Whip or Killing Spree. (I would like more realistic abilities like Rotate, where Fresh units get swapped in to the front line.)
    7. Gladiators being super cheap and vicious
    8. When taking a minor settlement, the battle should be fought outside of the settlement, the winner then takes the settlement.

    Bugs
    Clubs do 5 Damage (and 10 AP) this totally nerfs bloodsworn, should be upgraded to at least 15-25 normal damage.
    Slingers use a really good shield which gives them amazing Defensive stats (For such a cheap unit) They get spammed. Please eliminate this advantage.

  11. #71
    Member Member Spoonska's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Quote Originally Posted by Myth View Post
    Also, champions are indeed overpowered. Not only is their training action too effective too quickly, they also level up very fast, to the point where + agent levels buildings become meaningless. Why invest in a tier 5 building to get +2 agent levles when that champ will level up to level 6 in a matter of turns?
    You build the +agent buildings to get a Lv.10 agent, but it's really a bit of a mess.I did some testing (while watching movies :P) for leveling agents over the weekend. For experience it's : 2 exp for a failed action, 10 exp for a success. The conclusion I came to was that if you're starting from scratch, i.e. no +agent bonus, then the likelyhood of getting that agent to Lv. 10 is slim to none. I spawned 5 agents 2 spys, 1 dignitary, 2 champions all at 1 stars, and when old age killed them off they were between Lv.7-8. By building a +2 or +3 building you'll get higher up quicker.


    Why would you want to do that ? Well for agents I personally find it best to focus on 2 talents to max out. For example the dignitary... Getting a dignitary that spawns with +Civil administration and then going down the Authority tree for Politics for more Civil administration will net you 24% taxes. In order to hit that magic 24% number you'll need 7 talent points. If you spawn with an agent with 3 or 4 stars you can just hit that max benefit faster of course.

    Why is it a mess ? Because leveling slows to a crawl once you get to level 7. If you can get to level 10 with an agent they will most likely be in their sixties. So that gives you maybe 5-10 turns of usability before they bite the balista. Another reason being you can max out an agent's success to 95% relatively quickly. Spies for example their % success rate contrast to the towns cunning. So if you're trying to poison the wells every point of Cunning will give you +% after 3 cunning. If you specialize agents like Spies and go heavy on cunning you're pretty much all set by level 5.

    Perhaps that's how it was intended. I know for Hellenistic factions the +Agent bonus is tied to the hambone City Centre building giving you 10% Ag wealth, 50 Culture wealth and food. It does seem like it needs to be tweaked. As far as champions go I was thinking that they would be nerfed inconsequentially when the AI gets "buffed". At the moment the AI more or less is still a potato brain mulling about. In the future when it's fielding armies that don't contain 15/20 javelinmen (or slingers), and is a considerable threat we will hopefully have to train more units. As it stands on VH battle AI there's been multiple times where I've gone into a fight down 2:1 and come out with only 200 losses. More losses should drop experience allowing the champion to help get it back up. At least that's what I think about it.


    TL;DR - Champions are good because the AI is terrible and not forcing you to lose troops. +Agent buildings are worth it because it can get you to Lv.7 (IE 2 maxed talents) the fastest increasing their efficiency. Even more so if you're Hellenistic because a Pandocheion gives you food along with some other great bonuses.
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  12. #72
    Member Member Lord of the Isles's Avatar
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    Default End of Game musings

    I've already posted my main thoughts in this thread. Decided to add a few more, prompted by my finishing a game (Athens on Hard at 1 AD). I started on 3rd Sep with Rome but gave up around turn 160 as crashes happening more regularly and the first patch was out so decided to begin another campaign.

    First thing to say is that I'm surprised that, unlike some other TW games, I have kept going till the end. Must be something driving that one-more-turn feeling. Mind you, when I say 'the end', I didn't actually win the game. I had all the Bonus Objectives fulfilled and all those needed for an Economic Victory except one: I needed trade agreements with 20 factions but only had 9. But by 1 AD there were only 23 factions left in the game and 14 of those had no trade route to their capitals, and likely never would have. So it was impossible and I just decided to declarer myself the winner by Imperial Fiat

    • Victory Conditions. Need work (see above). Don't mind them being tough (getting all 9 trade goods was really hard - found silk in Edessa eventually) but when they are impossible it kind of devalues the point of them. For economic, x trade agreements or 33% of remaining factions, whichever is fewer, might work.
    • Battles. I've not had a single open field battle where I was defending a capture point. As Bramborough noted, this is probably because I only use forced march in friendly areas or where the AI doesn't have a large stack army close. I only had 1 battle in the whole game where I was attacking and the AI defender had a capture point to defend. Mind you, I only had a handful of open field battles the whole game - almost every one was attacking or occasionally defending a city or town. I know CA tried to reduce the number of siege battles but it hasn't worked well. We just get lots of no-walled towns to attack instead. A change to begin with but it is quickly becoming boring. And the AI's habit of parking army stacks in naval transports outside the towns isn't helping.
    • Buffs. From buildings, heroes/veterans, generals, techs, army traditions and experience. Those add up to far too much, especially when the AI can't manage it. Remember that small % increases mean a lot - it isn't that a 20% buffed weapon damage unit beats a non-buffed unit leaving 20% more men in it. Maxed out units tear through weaker ones losing hardly any men most of the time.
    • Replenishment. Too fast for armies at least (fleets I'm not sure about, they don't seem so quick). Down to 30/160 men in middle and late game I was back up to usable next turn and 160/160 in 2. That's too soon.
    • Characters. No doubt a side effect of the 1-turn-per-year system (sigh) but they die before I get attached to them. I don't even care about buffing their units with weapons & armour since by the time they get back to the front line, they'll be dead and the next one comes along.
    • Amphibious Assaults. Maybe I am missing something but: I have a 10 unit fleet & 20 unit army in transports outside a town. If I select the army and right click to attack, the army goes onto land and pauses, letting me attack from land but that wasn't what I wanted. If I select the fleet and right click it goes into a battle as expected. But in both cases, I only get part of the supporting force appearing. If the army attacks from land, only say 5 or 6 of the naval units appear as reinforcements. When the fleet attacks with the army in transports as support, only say 6 - 8 of the transports appear as reinforcements. Weird.


    Overall, I've had fun and my money's worth. But, despite many interesting and good new design features in the game, I wonder how long it will be before the novelty wears off and I go back to Shogun 2 (or the Third Age TW mod). Maybe not long; I'm already auto-resolving battles most of the time.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Quote Originally Posted by ararax View Post
    Lets see.
    Military
    1. Have Hastati upgradable to Principes at 3 Chevrons, and have Principes upgradable to Triarii at 6 Chevrons.
    2. Have Veteran Grade Legions be upgrades of Normal Legions, not a seperate recruitable.
    3. Expand the Tech Tree to include later era tech like the Spatha. Let Barbarians finish out at Migration Era tech, and Romans finish out at late Roman Tech. (Greeks and Easterns move to a Heavy Armoured Horse Archer tech level aka Parthian Byzantine)
    4. Add caps for Elite unit Types as a player handcuff. There is no reason i should be able to field 15 Legions of Praetorians.
    5. Add regional Legions. At the moment it is best to recruit all army units in one specced out region. If you could recruit regional legions (aka Gallic Legions having Better Charge, Italia Legions having better moral, Spanish Legions having better attack, Illyrian Legions having better Pilum Range) there might be a reason to build a barracks somewhere other than Italy.


    Campaign
    1. Expand the tech tree. I want hundreds of Techs that I can research, not a 60ish I want to be able to pick where and how I research, if I want to develop a superior military at the expense of Civilian then I should be allowed to.
    2. Family Tree
    3. 2-4 TPY with seasons.
    4. Squalor: Farms should not give Squalor, factories should.
    5. Food: Temples shouldnt eat 2 farms worth of food. They just shouldnt.

    6. AI Recruitment AI should recruit by job than priority. They should look to recruit 5 line infantry. When they recruit that they should get 2 ranged and 2 horse as priority after that they should look for more line infantry. This would vary by culture/Faction. As it is now, it buys as many stats per coin as it can. Which leads to slinger armies.

    Battle
    1. Get rid of Blobbing. Roman/Greek/Eastern Units should keep formation.
    2. Guard mode Toggle. If I want the units to stay and hold formation they should, if I want them to attack anything in range they should.
    3. Defensive Pilum. Units with Javelins should have a fire at will button.
    4. AI can't calculate battles very well. It thinks that my half stack of boosted Praetorians (~150 Attack 100+ Armour ~150 Moral) would be destroyed by 2 stacks of Levy Spearmen. I can just faceroll charge into them and my PGs will eat them alive in an instant.
    5. Celtic Longswords are only 5 AP Damage (the Minimum) Should be at least 10 due to the blunt force of those weapons alone.
    6. Magic abilities like Use the Whip or Killing Spree. (I would like more realistic abilities like Rotate, where Fresh units get swapped in to the front line.)
    7. Gladiators being super cheap and vicious
    8. When taking a minor settlement, the battle should be fought outside of the settlement, the winner then takes the settlement.

    Bugs
    Clubs do 5 Damage (and 10 AP) this totally nerfs bloodsworn, should be upgraded to at least 15-25 normal damage.
    Slingers use a really good shield which gives them amazing Defensive stats (For such a cheap unit) They get spammed. Please eliminate this advantage.
    Fully agree with (or at least, "don't disagree with") most of these suggestions. In particular the Roman military tech-up comments. It doesn't make sense to me that one can recruit brand-new units of Pricipe/Triarii, "Veteran" Legionaries, First Cohorts, and Praetorians. These are all older/experienced troops. One should only be able to recruit Hastati and Legionaries, and then upgrade to these elite unit types based on experience (which obtw, is in itself a little too easy to get right now, but that's a separate issue).

    Disagree, however, with comments regarding farm squalor and temple food.

    1. Farms. As the farms get larger and more productive/efficient, they require far fewer personnel-per-acre to operate. The squalor represents the dispossessed small farmer, a small percentage of whom remain on the big farms as mere tenant employees (as opposed to owners), while the majority remainder flock to cities as unemployed. The Roman Republic had a huge problem with this (never satisfactorily resolved), and was a central factor in the tensions leading to its first major civil war. It's a problem inherent in agricultural development up til today (remember Willie Nelson's "Farm Aid" concerts in the '80's?).

    2. Temples. I will agree that, superficially, it doesn't make sense that higher-level temples eat a huge amount of food (above and beyond the relatively tiny population percentage which the clergy & temple workers would make up). Within the game mechanics, however, it's livable. Level III+ buildings need to cost something. In this economic system, it's either squalor or food. So while it's counterintuitive that temples would consume an inordinate amount of food, it would make even far less sense that temples would come with a public order penalty.
    Last edited by Bramborough; 09-18-2013 at 19:31.

  14. #74
    Member Member Jarmam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramborough View Post

    Disagree, however, with comments regarding farm squalor and temple food.

    1. Farms. As the farms get larger and more productive/efficient, they require far fewer personnel-per-acre to operate. The squalor represents the dispossessed small farmer, a small percentage of whom remain on the big farms as mere tenant employees (as opposed to owners), while the majority remainder flock to cities as unemployed. The Roman Republic had a huge problem with this (never satisfactorily resolved), and was a central factor in the tensions leading to its first major civil war. It's a problem inherent in agricultural development up til today (remember Willie Nelson's "Farm Aid" concerts in the '80's?).

    2. Temples. I will agree that, superficially, it doesn't make sense that higher-level temples eat a huge amount of food (above and beyond the relatively tiny population percentage which the clergy & temple workers would make up). Within the game mechanics, however, it's livable. Level III+ buildings need to cost something. In this economic system, it's either squalor or food. So while it's counterintuitive that temples would consume an inordinate amount of food, it would make even far less sense that temples would come with a public order penalty.
    Just seconding this since it is really, really important. The patch that reduced food/squalor for buildings already made economy super-easy to get out of control - if you get rid of more of it we are back to a Shogun 2 system of exponential absurdity and while it was kind of fun, it kind of... wasnt. I love the fact that even though I am clearly the major power a combination of food, squalor and corruption puts a leash on my economic superiority even 170 some turns into the game with lots of philosophy and economic researches.

    Another minor, yet surprisingly frustrating thing I've quickly come to hate:
    You cannot upgrade a Legion at a time, even though they require the exact same type of upgrade. My Legio I Victor Liberatoribus (they saved me from the 6 civil war stacks, good guys!) just came home from conquering Britannia and needed the +20 melee +20 shield +20 defense ups I had set up in Italy meanwhile. This goes the following: Select General, select upgrade, upgrade. Select 1 more unit, repeat. You cannot select 7 Legionary squads and upgrade them all at the same time - even though they are identical. And if I recall correctly you can select 7 Principles and upgrade them all to Legionaries in 3 clicks. But for weapons/armor this takes a massive 60 clicks per stack. And I have 12 legions! Please! Fix!

    Also agents are way too good and their abilities are blurry in what they do. Why does the enemy lose some seemingly random amount of movement if I poison the stack or disrupt the baggage trains?
    Replenishment (on land at least) is way too fast and its bugged with the AI. Everything replenishes in the player's turn. So I might attack and win a fight vs Britannia. The remaining units retreat to their province - but they aren't replenished in his turn. Instead they replenish in mine. This also means that if they attack me and lose (in their province) I cannot take real advantage of this in my turn, since the remaining units have all replenished even though he hasn't had a new turn yet. Too fast replenishment (probably a problem linked to the 1tpy) combined with this can get quite annoying when expanding against enemies that actually put up a real fight. Yes, my friends, Oathsworn and Noble Cavalry stacks - be afraid.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    One thing I miss from the last TW I played (M2) is the option to offer or demand regions via diplomacy. It gave more room to play the economical way. You could try to get region without going to war if your funds were big enough.

    What do you think?

  16. #76

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramborough View Post
    Fully agree with (or at least, "don't disagree with") most of these suggestions. In particular the Roman military tech-up comments. It doesn't make sense to me that one can recruit brand-new units of Pricipe/Triarii, "Veteran" Legionaries, First Cohorts, and Praetorians. These are all older/experienced troops. One should only be able to recruit Hastati and Legionaries, and then upgrade to these elite unit types based on experience (which obtw, is in itself a little too easy to get right now, but that's a separate issue).

    Disagree, however, with comments regarding farm squalor and temple food.

    1. Farms. As the farms get larger and more productive/efficient, they require far fewer personnel-per-acre to operate. The squalor represents the dispossessed small farmer, a small percentage of whom remain on the big farms as mere tenant employees (as opposed to owners), while the majority remainder flock to cities as unemployed. The Roman Republic had a huge problem with this (never satisfactorily resolved), and was a central factor in the tensions leading to its first major civil war. It's a problem inherent in agricultural development up til today (remember Willie Nelson's "Farm Aid" concerts in the '80's?).
    See that was a problem specific to Italy. Regions such as North Africa and Egypt never had these types of problems due to the large amounts of ramland availible.

    The Roman Latfundia issue was 3 fold.
    1. Rome was huge, By 1AD Rome was over 1 Million people. Alexandria was also this size in the era, but unlike Alexandria, Rome was surrounded by other large cities.
    2. Italy was not suited to mass scale pre industrial farming, unlike Egypt. Central Italy is very Mountainous there was no central river such as the Nile that connected farms with the city. Rome was even slightly inland which makes things harder.
    3. Rome had independant farmers for much of its history, Egypt never had a similar situation (Except for isolated incidents such as Galatian landed mercs) Once they got pressed out and replaced with slaves they were forced into the cities. Egypt had a long history of slave/serf like existance of the natives being controlled by the noble classes, and also in this case it added to unrest, but in this case it was the natives away from the cities that revolted most, while in Rome the unrest was formost involving the plebians who were evicted farmers, bought or pushed out by the rich.

    So while yes, high level agriculture has caused unrest in history, in both cases due to the huge amounts of population that they were expected to provide for. But really the Roman case was causes by high usage of slavery coupled with hgih city populations with no work, and the Alexandrian problem was caused by Feudal exploitment of the native population.

    Again, this would probably be better represented by things other than farm size.

    So long story short, it was the size of Rome and the surrounding areas and the relative lack of usable farmland that created the Latfundia problem.

    But I agree that there needs to be some kind of Gameplay Limit on player growth.
    Last edited by ararax; 09-19-2013 at 14:26.

  17. #77

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Already mentioned in a couple of other threads, but posting here for potential inclusion in our collective wishlist:

    Post-Civil War Internal Politics. Currently, internal politics abruptly ends with the start of the CW. After CW conclusion, influence/gravitas are frozen at pre-CW levels for remainder of game. Character actions such as Marriage, Promotion, Assassination, etc, are no longer possible (I guess all generals remain lifelong bachelors?). A 2nd CW is not possible. There's plenty which could be improved in the politics system...but flawed as it may be, at least it's something which adds to the complexity of gameplay. With its removal, the post-CW campaign becomes much simpler...and therefore more boring.

    On the other hand, there does need to be some sort of "resolution" from the Civil War, in order to give some meaning to that event. Potential for endless CWs through remainder of the campaign wouldn't be too attractive either.

    I would propose that upon a player concluding the Civil War, the following be implemented:

    1. If the player wins the CW outright, by destroying the opposing faction, then no further CW is possible.
    2. If the CW ends by treaty, however, then further CW IS possible. Therefore, a player must completely beat the opposition in order to reach full resolution of the "CW Question".
    3. Influence, gravitas, and ambition traits continue to operate just as they did pre-CW.
    4. Even though further CW isn't possible, a high-gravitas/ambition general from family other than player's own may still rebel (and take his army stack with him). He starts heading toward the capital, and if he gets there and captures, then there would be some sort of severe penalty (possibly losing the campaign). The idea here is that the threat wouldn't be very serious as long as the player prudently stations armies and generals, and reacts appropriately when it happens...BUT, if the player just goons up the response, or outright ignores the rebel general, then it's a real problem.
    5. Marriages, promotions, assassinations, bribes, rumors, etc, would still continue (thus making continued influence-management of some worth).

  18. #78
    Member Member Kamakazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    A downloadable Blood Pack such as in shogun 2 would be nice. I enjoyed the flailings of death and the kill moves.

    Also better battle in general. Often times my units are just siting there and killing without doing anything
    If living is nothing dieing is nothing then nothing is everything and everything is nothing


  19. #79

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    I'd go one step further. IN MTW there was a option called Glorious Achievements mode. Why not bring something like that back,as I found that to be fun when I didn't want to conquer the entire world,as it gave the AI time to bring decent armies against me.

  20. #80
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Hah, that GA mode was stolen from Knigts of Honor
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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  21. #81

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Quote Originally Posted by oz_wwjd View Post
    I'd go one step further. IN MTW there was a option called Glorious Achievements mode. Why not bring something like that back,as I found that to be fun when I didn't want to conquer the entire world,as it gave the AI time to bring decent armies against me.
    Yes the cultural and economical victory conditions have to much military goals (settlement requirements) for my taste. GAs would be a welcome addition.

  22. #82

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    I didn't know that,but it did make sense at the time,as I felt it gave an additional challenge to the game,as goals were added from time to time,which were hard to accomplish.

  23. #83
    Floating Man Member Wilbo's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    I have a few issues with the generals, the core issue of which is that this is the first TW game that I don't feel any emotional attachment to them. I can see three points of improvement:

    1) Return of the family tree, as mentioned previously.

    2) We must have back the command stars visible on the command map - as per every other TW game. Traditionally, when I look across my armies, if I see one with a 5 star general I checked them out and made sure he was in control of the greatest army, but in RII I have no idea - nor do I care - who is in control of any army. Similarly, I would avoid encounters with enemy 5 star generals.

    3) Way too many bonuses - why do I have fifty retainers that offer the same thing? Give me the choice of three, as per Shogun 2! The same with skills - I have loads to choose from and isnce I don't know what zeal, authority and the other one do, I just choose any - these latter things aren't well transposed into battlefield effects.

    A key point however is that RII has given me major emotional attachment to my armies (Legio III Martia are legends), so CA have handled this excellently. Good job.
    Last edited by Wilbo; 09-28-2013 at 12:17.

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  24. #84

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    I really never pick any retainer with zeal,auth or whatever because it seems to be a waste of time. I pick things like armor, morale, damage or movement speed.

  25. #85

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiDamascus View Post
    I really never pick any retainer with zeal,auth or whatever because it seems to be a waste of time. I pick things like armor, morale, damage or movement speed.
    In theory, I agree. In practice, however, generals (the Roman ones, at least) usually seem to go crazy (first "Not Quite Right", followed soon by "Unhinged") and lose tons of authority. I find myself using +authority retainers quite often, trying to get rid of their low-auth debuffs. Other than that, yeah, I much prefer the others, especially the +damage guys.

    A side observation: Household members with +authority and +cunning come up all the time, but I don't think I've ever seen one with +zeal, which I find rather odd.

  26. #86

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Maybe because they knew how easy it was for a general to go +zeal?

  27. #87

    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Quote Originally Posted by AntiDamascus View Post
    Maybe because they knew how easy it was for a general to go +zeal?
    True enough, especially since it's much more natural to embed a champ with an army stack than a spy or dignitary.

  28. #88
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    +1 to seeing command stars on the map.

    For general development:

    Get the walking stick household item that gives +1% campaign map movement.

    Go for Strategist and then for the horn icon which gives 6% campaign map movement at first level.

    Can't go wrong with these. If you don't have that household item, 5% morale or armour is great (morale not needed once you have a sufficient armidoctor and Pretorians)
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

  29. #89
    Provost Senior Member Nelson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    I don't like the way the event messages disappear between saves. If I need to quit before reading them all I won't see them. They should be saved, too.

    I would also like the food surplus display to show, in addition to the current surplus/deficit , the pending food balance when looking at my current construction projects. With so many food changes happening turns later it would be nice to know what the forecast is when making still more construction decisions.
    Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like bananas.

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  30. #90
    Member Member Sp4's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rome 2: A constructive wishlist

    Quote Originally Posted by Bramborough View Post
    In theory, I agree. In practice, however, generals (the Roman ones, at least) usually seem to go crazy (first "Not Quite Right", followed soon by "Unhinged") and lose tons of authority. I find myself using +authority retainers quite often, trying to get rid of their low-auth debuffs. Other than that, yeah, I much prefer the others, especially the +damage guys.

    A side observation: Household members with +authority and +cunning come up all the time, but I don't think I've ever seen one with +zeal, which I find rather odd.
    If I get a general going crazy, I just roll with it and buff the guy's zeal. Minmax and all that ^^

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