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Thread: Romans hard-coded to survive?

  1. #1

    Default Romans hard-coded to survive?

    I fired up a new campaign as nostalgic for some Rome action and this PC won't play the new game.

    I picked the Scipii faction to play and thought I'd try and get rid of the rival Roman factions before the civil war. To do this I came up with the plan of capturing all of Sicily and then turtling, teching up those four cities and paying my excess profits to the sides the two rival factions were fighting. As an adjunct to that, I stood peasant units around Croton and Tarentum, bottling up the units inside from leaving, and standing peasant units in each pass out of northern Italy, blocking Julii expansion other than by sea.

    This worked like a charm for a long while. The Brutii had managed to take Apollonia and Thermon before my peasant blockade kicked in and then they picked a fight with the Macedonians who I was funding. The Julii managed to snag Massilia and Narbo Martius before my peasant blockade cut off their reinforcements and the Spanish started to expand.

    So the Spanish expanded in the west, taking out Gaul and Numidia and Carthage. Macedonia expanded in the east taking out Germania, Thrace, Greece and Dacia before expanding into Julii territory in North Italy. Both Empires have more than 20 provinces.

    As soon as Macedonia attacked a Julii core territory, the Senate got involved, capturing three cities in quick succession. But, amazingly, despite the money I'm pouring into Macedon's war effort, they cannot beat either the Julii or the Brutii into extinction. They can get them down to two cities, but each time they bounce back. The AI seems to conjure units for them out of thin air and teleport them over the Adriatic to attack Macedonian cities there when previously they couldn't get out of their cities I was blockading.

    Is the game hardcoded to keep them alive for a civil war event?

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Romans hard-coded to survive?

    First off, what a brilliant idea to use peasants to blockade the other houses. I don't think I've ever heard of that before

    But you must be playing something modded, yes? Because in vanilla RTW (patched to 1.5, of course) the SPQR cannot have any other province than Rome. Or at least I have never seen them capture another city....help other Roman factions defend theirs, but never to occupy.

    In a similar vein, it seems to me (though I've never done any empirical testing) that any Roman faction still around for the Marian Reforms get some kind of financial boost to keep them going. I say this because I've had games where I've had every single Roman port blockaded, every one with no exceptions, and yet seen their coffers continuously rise on the financial page of the faction report. And in late game, port trading exceeds all other trade...combined. So where is all the money coming from?
    High Plains Drifter

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  3. #3

    Default Re: Romans hard-coded to survive?

    Thanks RS.

    A peasant blockade as the Romans is hilarious against other Roman factions. The computer can't figure out how to deal with it, there's no option for it to ask you to move, you start out with unfettered military access. Croton and Tarentum both have full stacks of pre-Marianite units that can't get out due to the blockade. The pass west of Mediolanum leading to Massilia had three full stacks of Julii pre-Marianite troops destined to relieve Massilia which was stymied by a single peasant sat in the pass picking his nose. It's a fun way to stunt your rivals. I initially tried hemming them in with fortified peasant units but then realised "why do I even need forts? just let the peasants stand there!"

    However, as I say, I can't seem to get them driven to the brink of extinction.

    I'm not sure which version it is I'm playing but it's unmodded. SPQR went to the aid of the Julii once they lost Arretium to Macedon. They ended up retaking that and then taking Segesta and Mediolanum which had also fallen. The Julii at present have Ariminum and whichever the one on Corsica is called and have somehow managed to teleport over the Adriatic to take the one halfway down. This despite being massively outnumbered by Macedon.

    The AI seems to massively favour Roman factions to the point of cheating. Two units of Julii took that Adriatic town off of seven Macedonian ones. And these are top end Macedonian units like Royal Phalanx and Companion Cavalry, which never normally see the light of day in a normal campaign as Macedonia generally dies quite early.

    Both the other Roman factions don't seem to be benefitting financially. And yet they're making units which somehow materialise outside of the peasant blockades and make their way over the Adriatic as if by magic. Either the game is hardcoded to keep them alive or my unusual tactic is causing bugs somehow.

    It's frustrating to get this plan to the brink of success and not be able to hammer nails into the coffins of my rivals.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Romans hard-coded to survive?

    The pass west of Mediolanum leading to Massilia had three full stacks of Julii pre-Marianite troops destined to relieve Massilia which was stymied by a single peasant sat in the pass picking his nose.
    This is freakin' hilarious....I love it!

    SPQR went to the aid of the Julii once they lost Arretium to Macedon. They ended up retaking that and then taking Segesta and Mediolanum which had also fallen.
    When you say "they" you are referring to the SPQR? and if so, the boys in purple now have 3 more cities in addition to Rome?

    The AI seems to massively favour Roman factions to the point of cheating.
    That's a fact, in my book. In all the campaign's I've played (I play H/H, and sometimes VH/H), the only faction to ever siege a Roman city has been the Gauls. I once saw a situation where the Brutii took Thermon from the GC's and had a 3-star general and one Hastati unit in the city. The GC had a 3/4 stack of standard hoplites and the 5-star faction leader at the head well within striking distance. The boys in green had no reinforcements to send, so this family member and the lone infantry unit should have been dead meat. Does the AI retake the city? Nope. The stack spent 10yrs (yep, the whole 20 turns) walking back and forth between Thermon and Athens. Meanwhile, the faction leader died but still, a dozen or more exp.2 hoplites led by a captain should have made short work of a siege. Net result was that each turn, another infantry unit got added to the garrison until it filled to roughly a dozen or more, making Thermon virtually unassailable by the AI.

    If that had been the original Shogun, the AI would have thrown everything but the Emperor's daughter [and maybe even her] at the city in an attempt to get it back.

    And yet they're making units which somehow materialise outside of the peasant blockades and make their way over the Adriatic as if by magic.
    So you're saying that units materialize out of thin air?

    I've only seen this happen once. I was involved in a Scipii campaign and had reached the point of kicking the GC as well as Carthage off of Sicily. The AI had actually done a smart thing and sent a 15 unit reinforcement army by sea from Sparta to assist in breaking the siege of Syracuse. Too late, as it turned out, the city fell and I had a big bullseye on that fleet, chasing it all the way to North Africa. A second GC fleet had been tagging along nearby and the AI decides to land these troops near Carthage. There were 15 units (no general) on that fleet, and no troops on the other. When those troops disembarked, there was a full stack + general from the previously empty fleet, and the 15 units + general from the original one I had been chasing. Go figure

    I had to laugh, though. Weren't the Carthaginians surprised
    High Plains Drifter

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  5. #5

    Default Re: Romans hard-coded to survive?

    I'm thinking of playing some more Rome 1 mods with a good challenge in a gamey way (Already played a ton of authentic mods) is there any that you guys know of? SPQR mod seems interesting.

    I don't think this question is worth a brand new thread imo.
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  6. #6
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Romans hard-coded to survive?

    If you let the SPQR faction keep taking cities you will have one hell of a civil war, as their cities never revolt (hardcoded) and the SPQR is designed to never be lacking in funds. I guess that at some point if push comes to shove it starts using cheats. All of this sounds like console abuse: create_unit, move_unit and the one for auto winning a fight regardless of the odds. That, and add_money.

    I know the SPQR never runs out of money because when I set them as playable I start the game losing money because of Rome's garrison, yet the AI builds an expensive port a few turns into the game.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Romans hard-coded to survive?

    When you say "they" you are referring to the SPQR? and if so, the boys in purple now have 3 more cities in addition to Rome?
    Yes, precisely. SPQR captured Arretium, Segesta and Mediolanum from the Macedonians. They are now the second largest Roman faction after myself and north west Italy is now purple. They are now at war with the Spanish who have captured Massilia and are pushing east through the pass to Mediolanum. I disbanded my nose-picking peasant to let them enter Italy and clobber the SPQR.

    Interestingly, to incorporate a reply to Myth here also, SPQR's treasury was building and building until they were the richest faction but once they took over the other cities their treasury started to decline. They are still richest but if the graph is accurate, their precipitous rate of financial descent means they should be no richer than any other Roman faction in about 10 turns time. I'm guessing on the Rome-based units are free-of-charge for them. If they produce any elsewhere, and they are, then they seem to have to pay. They've not built a naval unit yet, it will be interesting to see if they ever do.

    Does the AI retake the city? Nope. The stack spent 10yrs (yep, the whole 20 turns) walking back and forth between Thermon and Athens. Meanwhile, the faction leader died but still, a dozen or more exp.2 hoplites led by a captain should have made short work of a siege. Net result was that each turn, another infantry unit got added to the garrison until it filled to roughly a dozen or more, making Thermon virtually unassailable by the AI.
    This happens a lot I've noticed.

    So you're saying that units materialize out of thin air?
    Yes. I don't know if it's because the town is full and there are no accessible squares next to the town and therefore it will teleport new units beyond the blockade. I threw a wider peasant cordon around Tarentum and Croton in addition to the ones directly adjacent to the cities and have trapped Brutii units in the heel of Italy. It's the ones who appear over the Adriatic that puzzle me. It's like there's nothing, nothing, nothing, blockade seems to be working and then a Brutii general and seven units appear by Thermon and lay siege to it. Thermon and Appolonia periodically fall under Brutii control but at least they can't reinforce quick enough and Macedon does eventually come and kick them out again.

    Even if I can't get these factions killed off though, I am enjoying this strategy. Europe is now effectively caught between Spanish and Macedonian dominance with a battle front between them from Denmark to the Alps. Royal Phalanx are being hurled against Bull Warriors and it's an interesting strategic situation. And both these Empires are fighting the other three Roman factions too, whilst I remain a neutral paymaster to the Macedonians. The Senate are average in standing towards me but the mob really hates me.

    Probably because I don't lift a finger to stop the Macedonian black war machine from rolling into Roman lands paid for by my denarii.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Romans hard-coded to survive?

    Yes, precisely. SPQR captured Arretium, Segesta and Mediolanum from the Macedonians. They are now the second largest Roman faction after myself and north west Italy is now purple.
    Well I'll be !@#$%! Been playing this game for almost ten years and because I've never seen the SPQR capture a city, I just assumed they were forbidden.

    This happens a lot I've noticed.
    All too often, and it's especially frustrating when it's an ally who you are propping up. If the AI would just get aggressive, they would be able to fend for themselves. But I did have an alliance in my last Brutii campaign with Macedonia that was notable for several reasons:

    ...the alliance was in effect for over 100yrs. even with a long common border
    ...after getting and granting military access so I could assist in their war with Thrace, they pulled off a naval landing in Anatolia after eliminating Thrace (I had fully expected the inevitable backstab)
    ...and they remained aggressive as hell throughout the campaign

    I don't know if it's because the town is full and there are no accessible squares next to the town and therefore it will teleport new units beyond the blockade
    I would assume this to be the case, though why the distance is so great is puzzling.

    whilst I remain a neutral paymaster to the Macedonians. The Senate are average in standing towards me but the mob really hates me.
    Isn't it fun to play god?
    High Plains Drifter

  9. #9
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Romans hard-coded to survive?

    You should post the save file here.
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Romans hard-coded to survive?

    In the state OP is in how hard would it be able to take out the SPQR? I agree with Myth, I'd like to try out the save file.
    Lets play Divide et Impera, Ptolemy Campaign. Link to full playlist down below!

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  11. #11

    Default Re: Romans hard-coded to survive?

    How do I go about posting the save file? I've never done that before.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Romans hard-coded to survive?

    Go to your main RTW folder, open the saves folder, copy your save (Has the name on it) then upload it.

    Don't think you can attach it but if you can then attach it to a post of yours. If not upload it to a site where people can download it. I use media fire for small files.
    Lets play Divide et Impera, Ptolemy Campaign. Link to full playlist down below!

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  13. #13

    Default Re: Romans hard-coded to survive?

    Scipio.sav

    Let's give this a try.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Romans hard-coded to survive?

    I'll try it out once I get back to my PC! Sounds like fun.
    Lets play Divide et Impera, Ptolemy Campaign. Link to full playlist down below!

    https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL...2oIDsmGrPrKpzM

  15. #15

    Default Re: Romans hard-coded to survive?

    Well I'll be !@#$%! Been playing this game for almost ten years and because I've never seen the SPQR capture a city, I just assumed they were forbidden.
    I know you can give SPQR lands you have captured, because other people on here have mentioned it before. I've tried to do that before but they always refuse my gift. So this is the first time for me also to see the SPQR have territory other than Rome. I think the circumstances have to get so dire with a Roman faction heartland actively invaded by a foreign faction before they will get involved. I expected them to return the land to the Julii but they seem happy to keep all these provinces for themselves.



    All too often, and it's especially frustrating when it's an ally who you are propping up. If the AI would just get aggressive, they would be able to fend for themselves. But I did have an alliance in my last Brutii campaign with Macedonia that was notable for several reasons:

    ...the alliance was in effect for over 100yrs. even with a long common border
    ...after getting and granting military access so I could assist in their war with Thrace, they pulled off a naval landing in Anatolia after eliminating Thrace (I had fully expected the inevitable backstab)
    ...and they remained aggressive as hell throughout the campaign
    With a common border shared that's a heck of an alliance. I've had allies who I've been paying 5000 denarii a turn backstab me before now. I expect Macedon to turn on me as soon as they're done with the Brutii and Julii (assuming they can ever finish them off). Twice they've attacked Julii armies they've driven to retreat until they were standing next to one of my peasant blockade units, thus drawing me into battle. But on each occasion on the battle preview screen I've hit "withdraw from battle" and left the Julii to fight alone. And it's preserved my neutrality with the Macedonians which surprised me.



    I would assume this to be the case, though why the distance is so great is puzzling.



    Isn't it fun to play god?:laugh4
    Absolutely! I'm just hoping I can see this strategy finally succeed in wiping out one or both of my rivals. I've never had them wiped out (by anyone other than myself) in a game where I've been the third Roman faction before now.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Romans hard-coded to survive?

    I tried loading up your save-game...no dice. The screen loading bar fills but no campaign map appears I'm patched to 1.5 but I've heavily modded my own game (my own tweaks, nothing formal) so maybe something I've done makes things incompatible.

    Oh well...while I had the game going I fired up an old save-game of my own and was good to go for several hours this afternoon
    High Plains Drifter

  17. #17
    Member Member LordK9's Avatar
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    Default Re: Romans hard-coded to survive?

    RE: The Senate are average in standing towards me but the mob really hates me.

    I've had the opposite of sorts happen - was playing out the game even though I had no chance of winning as the blue faction - about 50 years left to go - and I was outlawed. I was more popular with the Senate then either of the other two factions (nobody was popular - they each had one icon, I had two) and the mob by far hated me more then the others. I had under 20 provinces too (made some bad financial choices so got into a death spiral bind).

    Also, with the hard coded finance thing - several times I got messages saying I was the richest faction but always the purple finance line on the graph was higher then mine.
    Last edited by LordK9; 08-15-2014 at 23:50.

  18. #18
    Senior Member Senior Member ReluctantSamurai's Avatar
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    Default Re: Romans hard-coded to survive?

    Also, with the hard coded finance thing - several times I got messages saying I was the richest faction but always the purple finance line on the graph was higher then mine.
    The graph takes one turn to update, so it's possible that at the start of the turn you were the richest faction, but after all your expenditures, at the end of the turn the SPQR had more money than you
    High Plains Drifter

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