The issue with formations.

[Veho Nex]

I was watching online footage and compared it to the complaints on the forums.

There are claims that Pikes are too weak and many screenshots showing troops going through Phalanxes. It's a Warscape thing with all those 1v1 animations but the Phalanx is in formation and counts the other ranks too.

So perhaps the levy pikes get shredded to pieces but Hellenic Royal guard, even when it looks like they've been disrupted they'll shred anything to the front of them with a few losses.

Even Oathsworn, the best non pike heavy infantry will get mowed down. Spartan pikes win just because of efficiency to their cost value and numbers.

If you catch phalanxes on flanks, behind of off guard your men will make quick work of them. So I'd say that part of combat is decently balanced.

Sorry for derailing the thread quite a bit but I was thinking about how phalanx factions are viable compared to what people say on TWC. (Thus making them chosen more in my soon to be made thread)

This is a quote from the Screenshot thread and instead of further derailing it I started a new thread for it.

Ive noticed some huge factors in Rome 2 where the 1 on 1 duels of empire through to shogun don't work and detract from the game overall. Roman era warfare was formation fighting. Discipline, keeping ranks, and breaking the enemy formation was a huge part in victory. Phalanx formations are broken so easily in the game because of the need to do 1v1 fighting I think. If they developed and animated some 3 or more person fighting animations I don't think we'd see as much of the infantry just sliding past the front lines as we do.

In the video with Mykel Hawke they explain quite plainly how they fought. Jump to 3:40 in.

Block one guy, stab the guy your buddy is blocking.

In 300 Leonidas explains to Ephialtes about a phalanx formation works as well.

Your father should have told you how our phalanx works. We fight as a single impenetrable unit. That is the source of our strength. Each Spartan protects the man on his left from thigh to neck with his shield. A single weak spot and the phalanx shatters. From thigh to neck, Ephialtes.

Albeit these are odd sources to list but they get my point across. I think it is the unit animations themselves which are ruining formation fighting. Then again I'm a no nothing bumpkin, anyone else care to throw ideas as to why formations arent working?

[BroskiDerpman]

1v1 animations and the unit collision which sends units blobbing into each other and sometimes going through each other.

Many times I honestly think the 1v1 animations look silly and have people sitting there doing nothing or the funky shuffle dance.

Warscape imo is best for gun powder warfare especially with the design choice of firing comes (You can make it 360 degrees if you wanted to) Melees are quite lack luster but shoot outs are much better than Medieval 2 or Rome.

It's just when you introduce a melee heavy setting some things are just lacking. A Napoleon setting is best since you got all guns and it shows, a puny skirmish feels quite epic with a few militia units blasting away with the orchestra music. The battle mechanics are solid and hooah guy knows I play Napoleon online quite oftenly since I was discussing stuff with him.

If you had two units of musketeers with counter march disabled its still funky in Medieval 2, the engine is lackluster at gun powder. Warscape was designed with Empire in mind and mostly that time frame judging by how CA spent quite a while making that engine. It's like it's specialized for gunpowder warfare imo.

[Bramborough]

This is a quote from the Screenshot thread and instead of further derailing it I started a new thread for it.

Ive noticed some huge factors in Rome 2 where the 1 on 1 duels of empire through to shogun don't work and detract from the game overall. Roman era warfare was formation fighting. Discipline, keeping ranks, and breaking the enemy formation was a huge part in victory. Phalanx formations are broken so easily in the game because of the need to do 1v1 fighting I think. If they developed and animated some 3 or more person fighting animations I don't think we'd see as much of the infantry just sliding past the front lines as we do.

In the video with Mykel Hawke they explain quite plainly how they fought. Jump to 3:40 in.

Block one guy, stab the guy your buddy is blocking.

In 300 Leonidas explains to Ephialtes about a phalanx formation works as well.


Albeit these are odd sources to list but they get my point across. I think it is the unit animations themselves which are ruining formation fighting. Then again I'm a no nothing bumpkin, anyone else care to throw ideas as to why formations arent working?

At risk of thread derailment, I gotta remark that for me, somehow the most interesting thing about that great video was the caligae footwear. I want some of those kicks!

[Veho Nex]

They do look pretty awesome....

[Sp4]

You don't just have a series of 1v1s. I've seen someone attack another person in front of him only to have someone else walk in from the side and stab him. 1v1s still happen but they're usually over fairly quickly, like stab, evade, stab, block, kill.