Just today and the day isn't over

[Beskar]

But nah, it's all fine, all incidents, nothing fundamentally wrong with the islam.

That happened to Christianity too. The history of Europe is like that. Just through the war and the bloodshed, Christianity became far more moderate as a while than Islam currently is. However, there are moderate and lay muslims who don't do any of that. Why should they be persecuted by us for nothing wrong.

It is not Islam, it is peoples attitudes and some people in the turmoil and desperate areas do these things and no one has ever said they are acceptable. The Muslims I know voice displeasure over these incidents, saying it is not even the way of Islam. Should they be rounded up and persecuted by fascists?

You yourself have supported Muslims, you speak about the troubles in Iran, Turkey and other areas of the world. How come you some how discoonect your own efforts with those you are voicing your opinions against, when you are insulting them for things you do yourself.

[Fragony]

That happened to Christianity too. The history of Europe is like that. Just through the war and the bloodshed, Christianity became far more moderate as a while than Islam currently is. However, there are moderate and lay muslims who don't do any of that. Why should they be persecuted by us for nothing wrong.

It is not Islam, it is peoples attitudes and some people in the turmoil and desperate areas do these things and no one has ever said they are acceptable. The Muslims I know voice displeasure over these incidents, saying it is not even the way of Islam. Should they be rounded up and persecuted by fascists?

You yourself have supported Muslims, you speak about the troubles in Iran, Turkey and other areas of the world. How come you some how discoonect your own efforts with those you are voicing your opinions against, when you are insulting them for things you do yourself.

I don't want to do anything to them, I know perfectly well that the majority of the muslims only concern is what's for dinner. But I will critisize what I think is wrong, and I think there is something wrong with islam. Sure I support the Iranians and the Turks who share my own humanistic values. Muslims and islam just aren't the same thing for me. Why would I dislike LEN or Mouz. I don't. And I am pretty sure they know that. I am also pretty sure they understand me better than you do.

[Papewaio]

So in short Fragony equates Islam with the Inquistion.

A religious insitution that is fundamentally wrong and dangerous to the everyday human practitioners.

[Fragony]

So in short Fragony equates Islam with the Inquistion.

A religious insitution that is fundamentally wrong and dangerous to the everyday human practitioners.

In a way. But Islamism is rather new. Political islam is from from 1920 or so. Hence the destinction between muslims and islam

[Montmorency]

I think I get it. Fragony sees political Islam and Islam as equivalent.

Contemporary Islam is inherently political Islam, or something like that.

[Fragony]

I think I get it. Fragony sees political Islam and Islam as equivalent.

Contemporary Islam is inherently political Islam, or something like that.

Oh ffs I am not that stupid, I am perfectly aware of the details of the rise of the political islam. Or should we call it nationalism. Would do.

[Papewaio]

So you are against Islamic facism then?

[Fragony]

So you are against Islamic facism then?

Aren't you then? I got nothing against normal muslims, people don't realise how scared they are of these guys. They have a reason to be scared as nobody is going to help them as respect is more important for self-congratulators.

[caravel]

Forgot about the shopping mall but that was yesterday, church is today. I am not 100% sure of that, but islam clearly sucks. And obviously isn't peace. Could be mistaken with the other hundreds of attacks on churches by muslims there are just too many to keep up with

You didn't specify which type of muslim/islam you were referring to in this post.

[Fragony]

You didn't specify which type of muslim/islam you were referring to in this post.

The type you seemingly absolutily adore and will always excuse. That one. That really really bad one.

[caravel]

Well before it was:

"islam clearly sucks. And obviously isn't peace"

"I have zero-respect for the islam. I think it's a sck ideoligy"

Now it's: "I got nothing against normal muslims" etc...

Initially, you didn't differentiate between the "normal" muslims and the others... you just said: "islam clearly sucks. And obviously isn't peace"

I think most of us live in a world where there are more than just the "normal" muslims and the type I "absolutely adore and will always excuse"...

[Fragony]

Well before it was:

"islam clearly sucks. And obviously isn't peace"

"I have zero-respect for the islam. I think it's a sck ideoligy"

Now it's: "I got nothing against normal muslims" etc...

Initially, you didn't differentiate between the "normal" muslims and the others... you just said: "islam clearly sucks. And obviously isn't peace"

I think most of us live in a world where there are more than just the "normal" muslims and the type I "absolutely adore and will always excuse"...

So where is the ambiguity than, there is nothing there I didn't explain.

[Papewaio]

Well for most of us in an English speaking country

Islam is to Muslims what Christianity is to Christians.

So it seemed you were saying all Muslims by saying Islam. When you probably meant Islamism which is the fundamentalist political factions. The ism is a huge difference.

[Husar]

What caravel says has actually happened in numerous threads over the past few years.

I always get the feeling that everyone either forgets this or Fragony didn't explain it well enough the last dozen times while he always assumes everybody knows what he means, then phrases it in the wrong generic terms again until I get kinda confused what he means as well. Then he explains it again and so on.

Generally it would help if you voiced your opinions a bit more precise Frags, could avoid a lot of needless discussion that way.
Oh and maybe drop the whole thing about imaginary lefties who like and apologize for terrorism.

[Fragony]

What caravel says has actually happened in numerous threads over the past few years.

I always get the feeling that everyone either forgets this or Fragony didn't explain it well enough the last dozen times while he always assumes everybody knows what he means, then phrases it in the wrong generic terms again until I get kinda confused what he means as well. Then he explains it again and so on.


Generally it would help if you voiced your opinions a bit more precise Frags, could avoid a lot of needless discussion that way.
Oh and maybe drop the whole thing about imaginary lefties who like and apologize for terrorism.

I explained the destiction I make very clearly. If you can't see me making it you are just too stupid to be in this discussion anyway. So farewell and goodbye, bon nuit et adieu.

[Husar]

I explained the destiction I make very clearly. If you can't see me making it you are just too stupid to be in this discussion anyway. So farewell and goodbye, bon nuit et adieu.

You didn't get my point, I said that you made the distinction numerous times yet in every new thread people end up thinking that you don't...

[Fragony]

You didn't get my point, I said that you made the distinction numerous times yet in every new thread people end up thinking that you don't...

They are free to think that, just as I am free to think they are stupid. There is nothing absolutily not clear about how I see things if you just read what I say instead of suspecting anything else. But feel free to suspect me of anything anyway, those that do are wrong as I am totally harmless, but I was granted with two eyes to see and two ears to hear, and I will keep seeing and hearing and make my own conclusions.

[Husar]

They are free to think that, just as I am free to think they are stupid. There is nothing absolutily not clear about how I see things if you just read what I say instead of suspecting anything else. But feel free to suspect me of anything anyway, those that do are wrong as I am totally harmless, but I was granted with two eyes to see and two ears to hear, and I will keep seeing and hearing and make my own conclusions.

Well, my other point was that this might just happen because you constantly use terminology that is too broad and that noone else uses in the same way you do. Communication is not just about saying something however you want and then expecting others to know exactly what you meant. It doesn't work and that's partially why you have the reputation that you have. You can't say others are stupid because they don't get the ramblings full of connotations and connections which only exist in your brain.

That is the other side of the coin where you could actually improve your posting style if you do not want to continuously be "misunderstood".

This site has an explanation of how communication works. Let me quote the important part:

3. Encoding the message – translating communication into an understandable message, utilizing appropriate symbols. The sender must Encode/translate the message to be sent and shared into a form and symbols that the receiver will be able to understand. Encoding involves the selection of words, symbols, sounds, and non verbal movements (gestures) to convey the message content and meaning that the source wishes to transmit and shared with others. Many communication problems can develop at this stage.

If you say "Islam" instead of e.g. "violent political Islam", you shouldn't be surprised if you are misunderstood because you didn't use the proper way to encode your intended message.

And just to be balanced, this is for the people who should've read Fragony's prior explanations:

Your own preconceptions and biases can represent a barrier to communication. Prior interactions with people may have caused you to form opinions about them that may impact how closely you listen to them or how you view their comments and opinions. With strangers you may be impacted by the way they look or their manner of speech and may quickly form opinions that may be inaccurate. Being alert to your own potential for bias can help to avoid this common barrier in communication.

[Fragony]

What can I say, life would be empty without any poetry.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Fragony, I think that we have all come to such a consensus on this topic (violent Muslims = bad, most Muslims = good), you are simply using provocative language to stir up an argument, because without this to argue about, you lose your main 'thing' on these forums.

I'm getting a strong sense of deja vu here...

[Fragony]

I'm getting a strong sense of deja vu here...

Can't be me because I am in the Netherland at the moment