Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 107

Thread: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

  1. #1
    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Victoria, British Columbia
    Posts
    4,211

    Default The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Good discussion about the American healthcare debate from a "damn foreigner" point of view. It seems that opponents of "Obamacare" (a stupider term I don't think I've ever heard) are driven by a lingering memory of the cold war and the evil influence of communism/socialism. Here's the latest message: public health care does not mean that you will soon be nationalizing oil companies. Get over it and do the right thing for your people. And oh yeah, tell Cruz to shut the hell up; he's an idiot. http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...852_story.html
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

    - TSM

  2. #2
    Dyslexic agnostic insomniac Senior Member Goofball's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Victoria, British Columbia
    Posts
    4,211

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Also, I forgot to add: Jesus would have completely endorsed socialized medicine. Discuss.
    "What, have Canadians run out of guns to steal from other Canadians and now need to piss all over our glee?"

    - TSM

    Member thankful for this post:



  3. #3
    Old Town Road Senior Member Strike For The South's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Between Louis' sheets
    Posts
    10,319

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball View Post
    Also, I forgot to add: Jesus would have completely endorsed socialized medicine. Discuss.
    THERE WE HAVE IT, PROBLEM SOLVED
    There, but for the grace of God, goes John Bradford

    My aim, then, was to whip the rebels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.

    I am tired and sick of war. Its glory is all moonshine. It is only those who have neither fired a shot nor heard the shrieks and groans of the wounded who cry aloud for blood, for vengeance, for desolation.

    Members thankful for this post (2):



  4. #4
    Strategist and Storyteller Member Myth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    3,920

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Having social benefits is great. Bulgaria is an ex-communist country and I've been brought up as a rabid anty-commie by my father. However, I can see some benefits of the socialism philosophy. Free health care, free education and goverment regulation on the prices of the most important commodities - bread, meat, dairy products, eggs, petrol, medicine, meant that the people lived without the fear of what they will eat tomorrow or if they will have 200 euro for their first grader's textbooks this fall.

    Nobody is denied an operation or a medical procedure. Not like today where you have to go and buy your own bandages or you're left to rot. There was no fertile land which was not used for agriculture. Sure, the concept of private property in regards to fertile land was basically fiction as one could not opt out of the TKZS large-scale agricultural development format. But this also meant Bulgaria was a major producer of grain, tomatoes, plums, grapes (and wine) and such. We were exporting and we had enough surplus to saturate our own market.

    Is this bad? Can't say. It probably is, but the alternatives are not that great either. But having fertile land growing weeds and shrubs now is the worst, considering our warm climate is great for quality fruit and vegetables. But back on the topic of health care - all goverments take in millions (some billions) from their people as taxes. In fact, if you sit down and calculate just how much of what we make we give to the gov. as taxes you'd see that druing the middle ages, revolts have happened and kings have been detrhoned for raising taxes to an extent of a fraction of what we conisder normal taxes today. So why shouldn't some of these huge piles of money go for OUR health and well-being?
    The art of war, then, is governed by five constant
    factors, to be taken into account in one's deliberations,
    when seeking to determine the conditions obtaining in the field.

    These are: (1) The Moral Law; (2) Heaven; (3) Earth;
    (4) The Commander; (5) Method and discipline.
    Sun Tzu, "The Art of War"
    Like totalwar.org on Facebook!

  5. #5
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    OKRAHOMER
    Posts
    7,424

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Goofball are you even familiar with the law? You do realize it's not socialized medicine, right? You do realize it is socialized insurance, right?

    I do realize that typical Washington dc politics is what kept us from getting a proper single payer system, which is ridiculous considering we already have such a system called Medicaid and we could have just expanded it.

    Instead we get the Affordable Care Act, which is government mandated and subsidized insurance. This was, of course, supposed to be a way to penalize people -- particularly poor people -- in a manner that makes them get insurance rather than sucking the tit of the system. Except now we are getting talk of exempting poor people from the penalties which defeats the purpose it began with. We also are now seeing big companies get exemptions from having to subsidize employees insurance.... we also just had the employer mandate pushed back a year.... but not the individual mandate.... so people still buy the insurance or get penalized but employers don't have to help them hahahaha

    Oh wait, theres more. The law also had dozens of rules for things that had nothing to do with healthcare, like "creating jobs" by outsourcing student loan servicing to outside banks instead of the DOE, which means changing your due date for your loan payment now takes 10 phone calls and 40 emails between you, the DOE and the IRS whereas before it took one single email

    So we have a healthcare law that was castrated by Republicans who didn't' want single payer; a law that was filled with crony favors by crony lovers Dems and Repubs to pander to the health insurance industry, an industry that was largely responsible for rising care costs to begin with; we have large companies and government itself exempt from the law; we have the enforcement coming from the IRS, one of the most inefficient, unfair and outdated government agencies in the universe that exists solely to keep itself alive through indecipherable tax code and butcher tactics; oh, and my personal favorite.... if I spend more than 30 total days CONUS (nonconsecutive or otherwise) I have to buy into this retarded healthcare exchange or get penalized by the IRS, even though I reside in a foreign country where I use local insurance or pay out of pocket because I can afford to, and belong to the only nation in the world that makes its citizens pay to revoke citizenship. Oh yeah, and that "undocumented immigrants won't be covered" ruse, which is funny because undocumented immigrants dont file federal tax returns so they don't get penalized for not having but they can reap any benefit of having it

    Basically, what started as a good idea got turned retarded by Republicans and Democrats, most of whom never even read the law. Now, it is a cluster, it's teeth have been removed, many will lose their current health coverage, many more will gain no benefit yet pay more, and what started as a way to provide healthcare to the middle class and the poor has quickly turned into nothing more than a tax on the middle class and government subsidation of immoral insurance companies.

    That is what the rest of the world should be laughing at, not some false pretense that Americans do not want socialized medicine.
    Last edited by Major Robert Dump; 09-26-2013 at 09:31.
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

    Members thankful for this post (5):



  6. #6
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Grand Duchy of Yorkshire
    Posts
    8,554

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball View Post
    Also, I forgot to add: Jesus would have completely endorsed socialized medicine. Discuss.
    Here in the UK if you go into hospital you've got more than an even chance of meeting him.

    National Death Service we call it. Google it and your blood will run cold.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  7. #7
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    No longer in Albion
    Posts
    15,691
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    Here in the UK if you go into hospital you've got more than an even chance of meeting him.
    National Death Service we call it. Google it and your blood will run cold.
    Clearly there is a mismatch between your experiences and my own when you come out with a statement like that.

    The downsides with the NHS is the relation with the private sector, usually with private payments taking a priority over the 'free' (some doctors do out of hours or allow private referrals) and private services such as a bed-side basic TV costing £5-per-day and the waiting times for non-essential operations or having to wait a couple of months for a free hip replacement opposed to paying over $50,000 in the United States and still having to wait a while.

    A lot of people take the service for granted, but even then, it is something like 4 out of 6 operations are for the over 65. It clearly takes care of the vulnerable old people.
    Last edited by Beskar; 09-26-2013 at 10:34.
    "We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" - Daryl Davis
    "What makes something right or wrong?" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." # | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs." RG

  8. #8
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Grand Duchy of Yorkshire
    Posts
    8,554

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Quote Originally Posted by Tiaexz View Post
    Clearly there is a mismatch between your experiences and my own when you come out with a statement like that.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/he...l-scandal.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Furness..._investigation

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stafford_Hospital_scandal

    Oh and to quote the late Frank Carson..."and there's more!"



    It clearly takes care of the vulnerable old people.
    Aye they do. Three words.

    Liverpool Care Pathway.
    Last edited by InsaneApache; 09-26-2013 at 10:34.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  9. #9
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    No longer in Albion
    Posts
    15,691
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    So you cherry pick the odd examples for confirmation bias opposed to the great many Hospitals and services which are active within the country?

    It is like saying women are worse drivers than men, cherry picking news articles which involve women drivers, and ignoring the volumes of data which statistically show that male drivers are more likely to be in an accident and receive driving offences.
    Last edited by Beskar; 09-26-2013 at 10:47.
    "We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" - Daryl Davis
    "What makes something right or wrong?" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." # | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs." RG

  10. #10
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Grand Duchy of Yorkshire
    Posts
    8,554

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    So you totally ignore the fact that hospitals all over the UK have been killing people through negligence and box ticking.

    When I had my heart attack 4 years ago the elderly guy in the next bed would have starved to death if the Polish cleaners hadn't taken the time to feed him. Or perhaps the time a year or so later when my eldest lad was in hospital and his bed frame was caked in faeces. Or perhaps the time last year when the consultant was going to stop my dads meds because he was old and quote, "didn't have much time left".

    Wonder of the world eh?
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  11. #11
    Mr Self Important Senior Member Beskar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    No longer in Albion
    Posts
    15,691
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    So you totally ignore the fact that hospitals all over the UK have been killing people through negligence and box ticking.
    Did I say there were no such things as bad apples? I was simply remarking that a few incidents out of over 400 hospitals, even then one ward out of a great many (they are ran separately), doesn't mean it is representative for the majority of the NHS.

    As for anecdotal evidence, it is different to my own. Outside of superficial things such as lack of activities/overpriced activities and hospital food not being comparable to my home cooking, the treatment was quick, thorough and rather no nonsense and regularly saw cleaners and support staff. Even with my terminally ill brother, he was on 'about a week' and they still continued treatments and he has lived for a further 5 years due to constant and ongoing support. When on the wards, I regularly see support staff assisting patients with feeding, and if they skip (when voluntary) two meals they are automatically placed on a diet and fluid chart to monitor what they have eaten with further steps implemented, if the gentleman was in a situation where he couldn't feed himself, then he would have some one with him to ensure it or placed on supplement bags.

    If you are saying about greater transparency and accountability, I have no issues with that. Anything out of line should be reported and dealt with. The incidents you experienced should not have happened and if anything like that starts to happen again, get proof of it, via pictures and other evidence then report it on.
    Last edited by Beskar; 09-26-2013 at 11:44.
    "We are living in space-age times but there's too many of us thinking with stone-age minds" - Daryl Davis
    "What makes something right or wrong?" | How to spot a Humanist
    "Men of Quality do not fear Equality." # | "Belief doesn't change facts. Facts, if you are reasonable, should change your beliefs." RG

  12. #12
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,550

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Quote Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump View Post
    That is what the rest of the world should be laughing at, not some false pretense that Americans do not want socialized medicine.
    Wrong. All this happens because Americans have to and want to pander to the companies and their owners because pandering to them makes them benevolent in the sense that they create underpaid minimum wage jobs so Americans can follow the American dream of accumulating debt, not being able to afford food and never working their way up because they could never afford an education.
    That is what Americans want and the politicians just implemented that instead of a filthy communist law that would provide fairness in healthcare.

    Everybody with a business 101 degree knows that fairness stifles competition, progress and the American Way. Organ donations should really be sold in auctions so that the most productive, richest citizens can buy them and prosper through a competitive process of natural selection as Jesus intended.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

    Members thankful for this post (6):



  13. #13
    Clan Clan InsaneApache's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Grand Duchy of Yorkshire
    Posts
    8,554

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Don't get me wrong, I'm totally in favour of subsidised health-care. Just not in the way we do it in the UK. It clearly isn't working as intended.
    There are times I wish they’d just ban everything- baccy and beer, burgers and bangers, and all the rest- once and for all. Instead, they creep forward one apparently tiny step at a time. It’s like being executed with a bacon slicer.

    “Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy.”

    To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticise.

    "The purpose of a university education for Left / Liberals is to attain all the politically correct attitudes towards minorties, and the financial means to live as far away from them as possible."

  14. #14
    smell the glove Senior Member Major Robert Dump's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    OKRAHOMER
    Posts
    7,424

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Quote Originally Posted by InsaneApache View Post
    Don't get me wrong, I'm totally in favour of subsidised health-care. Just not in the way we do it in the UK. It clearly isn't working as intended.
    I THINK YOU'RE BIG PROBLEM OVER THERE IS THAT INSURANCE COMPANIES ARE NOT INVOLVED. CLEARLY IF THE UK INVOLVED MORE INSURANCE COMPANIES IT WOULD FIX EVERYTHING
    Baby Quit Your Cryin' Put Your Clown Britches On!!!

    Member thankful for this post:

    Lemur 


  15. #15
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    U.S.
    Posts
    7,237

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    I'm willing to give it a shot because it passed congress and the executive and then, on the judgement of SCOTUS, was deemed to not be an unlawful abuse of Federal power under their power to tax.

    Do I think that it will work? No. Do I think that out will fail so badly that and prices will skyrocket to such levels that people will be clamoring for single payer? Absolutely - but this was the agenda of the left the entire time. I'm so fed up with the current health system that I really don't care'; we're all going to die one day, but the current system makes my living years angst ridden due to the financial calamity that could befall my family at any time. I don't know if people realize that when you are chronically I'll that your "off" days are different. It is so easy to get fired and just have no insurance when you are sick.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 09-26-2013 at 12:15.
    "That rifle hanging on the wall of the working-class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there."
    -Eric "George Orwell" Blair

    "If the policy of the government, upon vital questions affecting the whole people, is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court...the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned the government into the hands of that eminent tribunal."
    (Lincoln's First Inaugural Address, 1861).
    ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

    Members thankful for this post (2):



  16. #16
    has a Senior Member HoreTore's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    12,014

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    I feel like quoting Per Fugelli in response to IA:

    "I heard a representative from the Progress Party scream with an offended tone: 'People are dying in our hospitals!' Yes, where else should they die?"

    People demand perfection in life, and freedom from pain and hurt. When society can't deliver, they scream and blame everyone.

    We as a society needs to face up to the fact that life isn't without pain, and cease the constant demand of a perfect life.
    Still maintain that crying on the pitch should warrant a 3 match ban

  17. #17
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    In average 2000m above sea level.
    Posts
    4,176

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    I must honestly say, as both a Swede and Austrian, that I really struggle to understand how (some of) the people of the US do NOT want everyone to be able to get treatment.

    What's the problem?

    If we can afford healthcare for all our citizens, why not provide it?

    And if we can not afford it, where does the money go that would be MORE important?

    Really, c'mon. Everyone with somewhat of a heart must understand that being able to treat your childs cancer is a good thing. There are no "but", "if" or "when" about it.

    Humanitarian reasons aside, nations as a rule benefit from having a healthy - not to mention alive - population.

    Member thankful for this post:

    Andres 


  18. #18
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Slack Man Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    10,833

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Some interesting things in this thread.


    First: Health care, as with anything else, cannot be free. The cost can be transferred, deferred, shared, or gifted but nothing is ever free. Somewhere, somehow, someone or some group of someones must pay.

    Second: Obamacare -- and yes the name is a little silly -- is mostly mandated insurance requirements. As is usual with the US approach to healthcare, it is a booddoggle waiting to happen. Persons who, by current standards of insurance underwriting, have a high morbidity risk will flock to obtain health insurance that will defray the bulk of their expenses.

    Since most who are really ill cannot get health coverage at all and are forced to rely on pro bono care under the present system, they would be foolish NOT to avail themselves of Bronze coverage costing them $500 a month with a deductible of 6,350 max. For less than 12.5k per annum, they will receive unlimited health care for their condition. With lifetime costs well into the six-figure range for cancer treatment (1 in 8 women WILL face breast cancer; nearly 1 in 7 men WILL face prostate cancer), persons suffering a debilitating illness would be silly not to procure coverage and minimize their costs.

    Ideally, this is offset by large numbers. If large numbers of (usually healthier) younger persons participate, the numbers will work well (that's the classic insurance approach to spreading the risk as a risk management tool). However, for example, the current law has a maximum "not covered" penalty of 2.5% of income. Run the numbers and a 27 year old making 25k in Dallas would (Source: Huffington Post) pay $74 a month for health coverage costing 888/year. The non-payment penalty would be $625/year (even lower for the first two years of the program). Most of the relatively healthy younglings -- the ones least likely to have insurance or give a care anyway -- are going to opt out because it is cheaper.

    We will see, I suspect, a prototypical example of adverse selection that completely skews the finances on the whole thing. As many employers will have opted to have employees use the government exchanges rather than absorb the cost of maintaining their own coverage plan, we will rapidly face a situation where the government will have to:

    a) increase penalties to draconian levels so as to make health insurance a required personal obligation for all

    b) subsidize the continued losses of the program through an increase of the debt and/or an increase in taxation

    c) nationalize the health system along the lines of the present Canadian or British health systems


    Third, the government will NOT make a quick decision when this new crisis looms because of the usual political shenanigans, thus leaving us with option b), debt increase variant.

    Fourth, when the government services bubble bursts, it will make the sub-prime lending bubble look like fart bubble in a bathtub.


    Or, I suppose, our politicos might have the courage to act and tackle the problem head on....but I don't plan to hold my breath until that occurs.
    Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 09-26-2013 at 18:59.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  19. #19
    master of the pwniverse Member Fragony's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The EUSSR
    Posts
    30,680

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    I really don't understand it, I have tried reading articles about the problems and what caused them. A basic summary would be very nice as everybody is saying something else.

  20. #20
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Wisconsin Death Trip
    Posts
    15,754

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    No time to read it (work), but this looks like a halfway decent primer on the subject, Frags.
    "Those are my principles, and if you don't like them ... well, I have others." — Groucho Marx

  21. #21
    Banned Kadagar_AV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    In average 2000m above sea level.
    Posts
    4,176

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    The TLDR would be:

    How come USA, claiming to be rich, can NOT afford what other nations, worse off, easily can?
    How come USA doesn't WANT a healthy populace?



    Seamus>>> That's a whole lot of monetary reasons. I grant that the US has more fatties, but apart from that, you should be able to give USAnians the same healthcare as, say, Austria and Sweden, no?

    It's not like breast or prostate cancer is an USAnian invention, now is it?

  22. #22
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    15,662

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Quote Originally Posted by Goofball View Post
    Also, I forgot to add: Jesus would have completely endorsed socialized medicine. Discuss.
    He was a confirmed wino who shared his body around even with complete strangers...
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

  23. #23
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Slack Man Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    10,833

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    The TLDR would be:

    How come USA, claiming to be rich, can NOT afford what other nations, worse off, easily can?
    How come USA doesn't WANT a healthy populace?



    Seamus>>> That's a whole lot of monetary reasons. I grant that the US has more fatties, but apart from that, you should be able to give USAnians the same healthcare as, say, Austria and Sweden, no?

    It's not like breast or prostate cancer is an USAnian invention, now is it?
    The USA has always had more of a laissez-faire attitude toward the issue than most.


    In addition, we traditionally have not been willing to accept the rate of taxation necessary to fund such a program as the Austrian two-tier. The total tax burden on yanks with the highest income streams is usually less than 50% including federal income taxes, state and local sales and property taxes/fees, and other minor levies. Our capital gains tax is set at 23.8% for our highest earner brackets (and many of our richest have little or no wage income thus qualifying for the 15 capital gains rate).

    Many if not most Austrian wage earners pay 41% or 50% income tax rates, you have a value added tax on goods and services of 16% (10% for subsistence-related stuff), and a 25% capital gains with fewer loopholes.

    Historically, USA'ers have been unwilling to accept the tax burden shouldered by the typical Austrian...and national health care cannot be paid for without same. TANSTAAFL.


    Our health costs are the highest in the world per capita because: 1) our lifestyle as an aggregate is not the healthiest (wealth has its costs too), 2) we have the most cutting edge medical stuff/treatments/etc. in the world and the R&D costs for that are passed to the consumer indirectly, 3) we are viciously litigious and the malpractice costs for physicians are outrageous, again passed to the consumer, and 4) we have the worst of all worlds in terms of our specific combination of fee-for-service, private insurance, government regulation and coverage.

    There is no doubt that the current system is far less cost effective than it should be...I am just doubting that the ACA will actually improve upon things.
    Last edited by Seamus Fermanagh; 09-26-2013 at 22:01.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  24. #24
    In the shadows... Member Vuk's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    R.I.P. TosaInu In the shadows...
    Posts
    5,988

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    I'm sorry, but tell me again why I or any American should give a crap what the rest of the world thinks about how we govern ourselves? Forgetting the fact that the rest of the world is not worth us wiping our butts with, what business is it of theirs?
    Hammer, anvil, forge and fire, chase away The Hoofed Liar. Roof and doorway, block and beam, chase The Trickster from our dreams.
    Vigilance is our shield, that protects us from our squalid past. Knowledge is our weapon, with which we carve a path to an enlightened future.

    Everything you need to know about Kadagar_AV:
    Quote Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV View Post
    In a racial conflict I'd have no problem popping off some negroes.

  25. #25
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Slack Man Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    10,833

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
    I'm sorry, but tell me again why I or any American should give a crap what the rest of the world thinks about how we govern ourselves? Forgetting the fact that the rest of the world is not worth us wiping our butts with, what business is it of theirs?
    Didn't your momma ever give you that honey v vinegar lesson?
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  26. #26
    Praefectus Fabrum Senior Member Anime BlackJack Champion, Flash Poker Champion, Word Up Champion, Shape Game Champion, Snake Shooter Champion, Fishwater Challenge Champion, Rocket Racer MX Champion, Jukebox Hero Champion, Cub Shoot 2 Champion, My House Is Bigger Than Your House Champion, Funky Pong Champion, Cutie Quake Champion, Fling The Cow Champion, Treasure Diver Champion, Tiger Punch Champion, Virus Champion, Solitaire Champion, Worm Race Champion, Slack Man Champion, Japanese Baseball Champion, Rope Walker Champion, Penguin Pass Champion, Skate Park Champion, Super Mario Mushroom Champion, Watch Out Champion, Lawn Pac Champion, Weapons Of Mass Destruction Champion, Skate Boarder Champion, Fish Kill Champion, Lane Bowling Champion, Bugz Champion, Makai Grand Prix 2 Champion, KF 9000 Champion, White Van Man Champion, Parachute Panic Champion, BlackJack Champion, Stans Ski Jumping Champion, Smaugs Treasure Champion, Sofa Longjump Champion Seamus Fermanagh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Latibulm mali regis in muris.
    Posts
    10,833

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio View Post
    He was a confirmed wino who shared his body around even with complete strangers...
    Well, he asked to be remembered. Gotta check that block as completed.
    "The only way that has ever been discovered to have a lot of people cooperate together voluntarily is through the free market. And that's why it's so essential to preserving individual freedom.” -- Milton Friedman

    "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule." -- H. L. Mencken

  27. #27
    Iron Fist Senior Member Husar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    15,550

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
    I'm sorry, but tell me again why I or any American should give a crap what the rest of the world thinks about how we govern ourselves?
    You toppled countless governments during the cold war because you didn't like the way people governed themselves and you do quite a bit of that stuff even today. And now you wonder why people love to give you some of that back during comparatively harmless internet discussions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
    Forgetting the fact that the rest of the world is not worth us wiping our butts with, what business is it of theirs?
    We all secretly want to migrate to America, and like all migrants we want to make our new home a bit more like the old one in some respects.


    "Topic is tired and needs a nap." - Tosa Inu

    Member thankful for this post:

    Myth 


  28. #28
    Upstanding Member rvg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    America
    Posts
    3,818

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Quote Originally Posted by Husar View Post
    You toppled countless governments during the cold war because you didn't like the way people governed themselves and you do quite a bit of that stuff even today. And now you wonder why people love to give you some of that back during comparatively harmless internet discussions?
    We toppled them because we could. Nobody's really giving us anything back because nobody can. You can talk all you like about how bad the American social/political/whatever system might be, but it's worth pointing out that your impact upon that aforementioned system equals to zero. A big, fat zero.

    Just sayin'.
    "And if the people raise a great howl against my barbarity and cruelty, I will answer that war is war and not popularity seeking. If they want peace, they and their relatives must stop the war." - William Tecumseh Sherman

    “The market, like the Lord, helps those who help themselves. But unlike the Lord, the market does not forgive those who know not what they do.” - Warren Buffett

  29. #29
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    15,662

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Quote Originally Posted by Vuk View Post
    I'm sorry, but tell me again why I or any American should give a crap what the rest of the world thinks about how we govern ourselves? Forgetting the fact that the rest of the world is not worth us wiping our butts with, what business is it of theirs?
    Because we don't like bulldust where someone states they are #1 but smell like a #2
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

    Member thankful for this post:



  30. #30
    The Black Senior Member Papewaio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    15,662

    Default Re: The rest of the world thinks you're silly

    Quote Originally Posted by Papewaio View Post
    He was a confirmed wino who shared his body around even with complete strangers...
    For those not making the connection:

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eucharist
    Our genes maybe in the basement but it does not stop us chosing our point of view from the top.
    Quote Originally Posted by Louis VI the Fat
    Pape for global overlord!!
    Quote Originally Posted by English assassin
    Squid sources report that scientists taste "sort of like chicken"
    Quote Originally Posted by frogbeastegg View Post
    The rest is either as average as advertised or, in the case of the missionary, disappointing.

Page 1 of 4 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO