The rest of the world thinks you're silly

[Lemur]

Somebody needs to take on the micro-nations. Yeah, Grand Duchy of Westarctica, I'm looking at YOU.

-edit-

PS: Finally had time to read the brief on the history of healthcare reform in the USA, and I gotta say, pretty good summary. If this thread ever goes back on track, I recommend it as a backgrounding document.

[CrossLOPER]

I like telling people that they do not matter. It's a hobby.

You sound pretty empty.... and butthurt.

[rvg]

You sound pretty empty.... and butthurt.

How does one sound "empty"?

Oh, and watch out, you're next on the list to be lectured on how your country should be run.

[Xiahou]

The whole pre existing conditions thing alone makes it a step forward...

Ending the ability for insurers to refuse you based on pre-existing conditions and still calling the product "insurance" is crazy.

That's like buying mechanical breakdown insurance on your car after you blew up the engine and being shocked when they won't pay your claim.

[Montmorency]

That's like buying mechanical breakdown insurance on your car after you blew up the engine and being shocked when they won't pay your claim.

Not quite. To make it analogous to the earlier pre-existing conditions coverage paradigm: you have a harder time getting or keeping breakdown-insurance if your car has previously broken-down (and subsequently been repaired, of course); previous breakdowns or other mechanical malfunctions raise the projected costs-over-time for the insurer.

Ending the ability for insurers to refuse you based on pre-existing conditions and still calling the product "insurance" is crazy.

It's misleading - but what do you expect from a country that has decided to continue to permit insurance agencies to be some of the leading payers in the national health-care system?

[Vuk]

My hobby is to tell people how bad their overrated country really is. I see it as a charitable effort.
You're welcome.

Better to be great and overrated than to be a country that is only considered important in recent history because of the incredible evil of one of its maniacal rulers. You blondies loved to whine about Bush, ignoring the fact that you come from Godwin-stan. You love to try to undermine the importance of the US, meanwhile you have just about enough military power to conquer a rabbit den. You love to talk about how oppressive our culture and government is, meanwhile your police force is 1 billion times larger, better trained, better equipped, and more capable than you laughable, cigarette smoking, beer drinking military.
You have been invaded by Mongols, French (even the French...shame on you), Russians, and Americans in war, yet you think yourselves some kind of super humans. Wanna talk about overrating oneself?
So tell me honestly, why should an American care if a bunch of stereotypes which would make bigot blush country think we are overrated?

I know I am gonna get an infraction for this one, but I'll guarantee it; some times you just gotta tell it how it is. I'll regret it when I am sober.

Nighty-night Hans.

[Sir Moody]

/Husar uses sarcasm - it is super effective!!!

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Oh no, Canada's pissed. We'd better stick to buying our maple syrup from Vermont for a while.

[Husar]

Ending the ability for insurers to refuse you based on pre-existing conditions and still calling the product "insurance" is crazy.

That's like buying mechanical breakdown insurance on your car after you blew up the engine and being shocked when they won't pay your claim.

If you think humans are like cars then you also shouldn'tcomplain if your wife doesn't use you for a month or replaces you with a new model.
Maybe your definition of insurance simply doesn't suit human requirements.
And a lot of it could be alleviated by insuring everyone before they have preexisting conditions unless they have them from birth so that's a bit problematic, especially if you're against abortions.

[Brenus]

“Do you know much about Vietnam war?” Matter of fact, err, yes.

“Tourists? In Afghanistan?” US Armies? Just joking. No, tourists somewhere else, like a Commercial Centre in whatever country full of USAnians tourists.

“Did the Illuminati tell you that?” No. Observation and quick look on US military Budget: Impressive for so little results.

“We can deal with that.” The attack on the Twin Towers showed than you didn’t and can’t. You fall in Bin Laden trap, and now have to face even more enemies. Well done and manage… USA is so predictable…

“the war in Iraq is over” Good I was not drinking coffee above my keyboard… This is the worst month in Iraq in killings and bomb attacks. Well, I understand now, if it is how you qualify a war to be over by this standard…

“It's a hobby” Good one.

even the French...shame on you: I know it is Nationalism, but you should really study as you will find out that France is the most successful country in term of Military successes.
I always wonder why I am proud of this, when it is shame that France was so involved in wars. France conquered lands all over the World,had two Colonial Empires, lost both) attacked and was attacked by numerous countries, won more battles than lost (reason why France still exists) and then, why I am proud of it?

[Papewaio]

USA is just a realm divide from the British Empire as far as external factions are concerned. ;)

[InsaneApache]

Indeed.

[Major Robert Dump]

maybe the long term goal is to nationalize all insurance companies.

[Brenus]

“They lost everything they ever won.” Ridicule, you are. France still exists, so what did France lost? Her Empires gained on invasions and exploitation? That is good news. The UNIVERSAL declaration of Human Rights is a by-product of the French Revolution, as the metric-system, Code of Laws in Continental Europe…

“What's to be proud of with France?” Study History instead of listening prejudices. I know it is a lot to ask.

[Husar]

“They lost everything they ever won.” Ridicule, you are. France still exists, so what did France lost? Her Empires gained on invasions and exploitation? That is good news. The UNIVERSAL declaration of Human Rights is a by-product of the French Revolution, as the metric-system, Code of Laws in Continental Europe…

Heh, but Vuk and especially rvg just tried to tell everyone that Americans do not care about morals, human rights or humans without an American passport as long as they can benefit by not giving a poop. Their ideals promote a struggle and cmpetition and the winner takes all, losers aren't worth thinking about. And since the USA are the big winner, they can do whatever they want, morals are not a concern. Unless someone flashes a nipple, boy, now that is a problem!

[Papewaio]

If only French men could change a nappy they would be one step closer to perfect.

[Husar]

Better to be great and overrated than to be a country that is only considered important in recent history because of the incredible evil of one of its maniacal rulers. You blondies loved to whine about Bush, ignoring the fact that you come from Godwin-stan. You love to try to undermine the importance of the US, meanwhile you have just about enough military power to conquer a rabbit den. You love to talk about how oppressive our culture and government is, meanwhile your police force is 1 billion times larger, better trained, better equipped, and more capable than you laughable, cigarette smoking, beer drinking military.
You have been invaded by Mongols, French (even the French...shame on you), Russians, and Americans in war, yet you think yourselves some kind of super humans. Wanna talk about overrating oneself?
So tell me honestly, why should an American care if a bunch of stereotypes which would make bigot blush country think we are overrated?

Don't worry Vuk, I saw your post without the edits and was so shocked and insulted that I forgot to reply to it.

To get to the meat of the issue, our armies are not capable because we think invading is mostly a medieval practice and because Europe has grown together so much that we'd defend eachother anyway. This is also the problem with the invasions you mention since they were mostly more like conquering campaigns that ultimately failed before the war was really over. Some of them even failed because Europeans even back then stood together and helped eachother because they realized that it's beneficial for all Europeans. Compare it to how you want all your 50 states to be different here and there, yet stand together as a nation towards the outside.

As for your lack of caring, that's a long reply with quite a bunch of silly insults for someone who does not care. I do care about America or I would not argue about how to improve America. But then compassion is not part of the American psyche or part of spreading freedom and democracy I learned.

Trying to mke me blush by mentioning Hitler is always great comedy, assuming that Germany today is in any way like Hitler's Germany or had not improved at all in a moral sense is simply hilarious. Especially from a country that reinvented the concentration camp for undesirables whose human rights it declared null and void (gitmo in case you're wondering).

I know I am gonna get an infraction for this one, but I'll guarantee it; some times you just gotta tell it how it is. I'll regret it when I am sober.

Nighty-night Hans.

I know how it is, the difference is that moral standards only seem to be of concern for you when you can point to Hitler and 9/11 but when US policies are concerned it's all about "might is right and awesoooooome!". At least Brenus is able to see how french colonial power phantasies and victories are in conflict with his moral compass and the things he wishes for in a modern world.

I hope you slept well Joe.

[Brenus]

Well, all is the problem lays there. Most of the Glory earned by the French and recognised as such by idiots is Military. France crushed a lot of Countries (and was crushed, but I speak of Glory), in Europe and Outside, and a lot of time it was to rule and conquer, for minerals, cheap labour and profits.

Yeah yeah, we told ourselves it was to free the slaves, protect the minorities or spread democracy but the results were occupations, racism and the bloody Columns…

The problem is in the fact that Camerone, the legendary battle of the Foreign Legion was done during the Campaign of Mexico (done to oblige Mexico to pay the debts of the previous government), and that Dien Bien Phu was the last battle of a Colonial Power to keep a land under submission. This does not erase the courage of the soldiers who fought the battles, but it brings a question about why are we proud of it?

I could easily make the list of all glorious battles and wars won by France. I could easily make a list of France glorious lost battles and wars. The ones like Gelatinous Cube (nothing personal, just example) will jump on the last and ignore the first. It is a choice, not entirely, but a choice based on prejudice and ignorance.

"If only French men could change a nappy they would be one step closer to perfect." Pff... I manage it with skill and ease.

[Vuk]

Don't worry Vuk, I saw your post without the edits and was so shocked and insulted that I forgot to reply to it.

Sorry if I was a little too honest for you.

To get to the meat of the issue, our armies are not capable because we think invading is mostly a medieval practice and because Europe has grown together so much that we'd defend eachother anyway. This is also the problem with the invasions you mention since they were mostly more like conquering campaigns that ultimately failed before the war was really over. Some of them even failed because Europeans even back then stood together and helped eachother because they realized that it's beneficial for all Europeans. Compare it to how you want all your 50 states to be different here and there, yet stand together as a nation towards the outside.

At least when you were Nazis you had balls. I am not sure which is worse. Read what you wrote above and you will see exactly why Germany is nothing and will never be anything till they get a serious attitude change.

Trying to mke me blush by mentioning Hitler is always great comedy, assuming that Germany today is in any way like Hitler's Germany or had not improved at all in a moral sense is simply hilarious. Especially from a country that reinvented the concentration camp for undesirables whose human rights it declared null and void (gitmo in case you're wondering).

Concentration camp? I take it that English must be your second or third language, because you obviously have no idea what the phrase 'concentration camp' means.

I know how it is, the difference is that moral standards only seem to be of concern for you when you can point to Hitler and 9/11 but when US policies are concerned it's all about "might is right and awesoooooome!". At least Brenus is able to see how french colonial power phantasies and victories are in conflict with his moral compass and the things he wishes for in a modern world.

On the contrary, I recognize when America has been in the wrong and fully condemn those actions (Abandoning our allies in Vietnam, failure to support the revolution in Hungary we pledged to support, getting involved in the Bosnian War, etc, etc. I fully admit that not everything we have done has been good, but in the balance we have done far more good for the world than bad. What has Germany done in the last two centuries other than massacre and torture people, build crappy little cars, and get crap-faced drunk constantly?

I hope you slept well Joe.

Like a baby.

[Husar]

Sorry if I was a little too honest for you.

I'm still crying.

At least when you were Nazis you had balls. I am not sure which is worse. Read what you wrote above and you will see exactly why Germany is nothing and will never be anything till they get a serious attitude change.

Exactly, I think everyone can agree with that.

Concentration camp? I take it that English must be your second or third language, because you obviously have no idea what the phrase 'concentration camp' means.

A camp where you concentrate terrorists instead of sending them to proper prisons and giving them a fair trial.
Also the german flag in my signature is there to show that English is my first language.

On the contrary, I recognize when America has been in the wrong and fully condemn those actions (Abandoning our allies in Vietnam, failure to support the revolution in Hungary we pledged to support, getting involved in the Bosnian War, etc, etc. I fully admit that not everything we have done has been good, but in the balance we have done far more good for the world than bad. What has Germany done in the last two centuries other than massacre and torture people, build crappy little cars, and get crap-faced drunk constantly?

There's really nothing we have done because only wars count for you. I wonder why you even care about healthcare since it's not called the 'war on sickness'.

Like a baby.

How apt, you deserve it.


To get back to the topic, do you think Americans who are abducted by pirates and rescued by the US military should get the bill afterwards or is this kind of socialized caring for their health okay for you and why? Couldn't they get a private travel insurance that will then make sure to get them out of captivity?

[Vuk]

To get back to the topic, do you think Americans who are abducted by pirates and rescued by the US military should get the bill afterwards or is this kind of socialized caring for their health okay for you and why? Couldn't they get a private travel insurance that will then make sure to get them out of captivity?

They already do pay for it through their taxes. Levying taxes for a military is defined in the Constitution as one of the legitimate powers of government. I don't remember our founders saying that a legitimate role of government was to force people to buy a service they may or may not want. Maybe I just have to read that again.

[Vuk]

There's really nothing we have done because only wars count for you. I wonder why you even care about healthcare since it's not called the 'war on sickness'.

Nah, I care about things other than wars, but I will play along. Germany has waged many successful wars, such as its 'war on religion', its 'war on freedom', its 'war on privacy', and its 'war on decency'. When it comes to those things, you guys are conquering heroes.

How apt, you deserve it.

Of course. Good work brings good rest. You should look into it.

[Montmorency]

don't remember our founders saying that a legitimate role of government was to force people to buy a service they may or may not want. Maybe I just have to read that again.

By the same token, "rescuing people from pirates" is not one of the roles of the military as explicitly outlined in the Constitution!

Also

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

Oops!

[Seamus Fermanagh]

...Is that some kind of expert opinion or something? Do you know much about Vietnam war?

Actually, though he's simplifying it a bit, there is a good kernel of truth to that assertion.

The US and its SEATO allies struggled for years against the VC insurgency, including a huge buildup of troops between 1965 and 1968. While any large-scale engagement ended in a US victory, we were never able to do more than curtail the VC as they used -- quite intelligently -- classic guerilla tactics and we did not have enough troops to truly quash their insurgency (the accepted ratio required at the time was 10-1).

Then came the Tet offensive, where the VC attacked throughout Vietnam en masse -- and were decimated. They finally came out in the open and fought giving us the kind of fight we could really win, and which we did. So high was the casualty rate and so damaged was the VC infrastructure that Giap thought that NV might have to ask for terms. Until, that is, Walter Cronkite and the rest of the US media -- perceiving the US public's war weariness -- announced that Tet indicated that any hope of victory had been lost. At that moment they knew that we would not continue absorbing casualties in order to win.

After that it was all "peace with honor, etc." We accepted our defeat in the very moment of victory -- largely because a big slice of the US electorate was tired of the bleeding.

There were, of course, a number of other factors at play, but being "willing to have more dead" was a central facet of the whole thing.

[Husar]

They already do pay for it through their taxes. Levying taxes for a military is defined in the Constitution as one of the legitimate powers of government. I don't remember our founders saying that a legitimate role of government was to force people to buy a service they may or may not want. Maybe I just have to read that again.

As Montmorency says, rescuing people from pirates near Somalia is not what the military is there for, this stuff costs extra and they're not sent there by the US government.

Nah, I care about things other than wars, but I will play along. Germany has waged many successful wars, such as its 'war on religion', its 'war on freedom', its 'war on privacy', and its 'war on decency'. When it comes to those things, you guys are conquering heroes.

Except for the war on religion you might want to explain those a bit more. Especially the second one I do not get considering our privacy protection laws are much stricter than those in the USA and the NSA is not exactly a German institution.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

maybe the long term goal is to nationalize all insurance companies.

Just health insurance. The current set-ups for Life and Property/Casualty are a pretty comfortable fit for government.

Regarding health insurance, the basic premise is that all persons should receive healthcare as a basic human right, and that to deny healthcare is to deny the personhood of that individual.

A national health care system would provide equal access to medical care for any and all citizens without favoring those economically advantaged persons who, under the current system, can afford premier coverage or fee-for-service while others simply cannot.

The ACA becomes an effective tool for achieving this by requiring all persons to pay for coverage and requiring insurance companies to offer coverage to persons with pre-existing conditions. Of itself, this is not a problem for insurance, but it will be virtually impossible for the Government to allow companies to charge premiums that accurately reflect the increased risk associated with persons who have such conditions. When government imposed premium limits make the numbers untenable for private companies, they will drop out of providing health coverage. Eventually, this will generate the need for government-run healthcare following a two-tier approach such as that seen in Austria and elsewhere.

[Seamus Fermanagh]

They already do pay for it through their taxes. Levying taxes for a military is defined in the Constitution as one of the legitimate powers of government. I don't remember our founders saying that a legitimate role of government was to force people to buy a service they may or may not want. Maybe I just have to read that again.

The SCOTUS has upheld it as a legitimate form of taxation which, pursuant to the 16th amendment, no longer needs to be apportioned among and collected by the states but may be levied on an individual basis directly by the federal government.

Of course, the 16th was adopted without too much trouble since it was made known that it would only be for the purpose of levying a 1% income tax on America's highest wage earners. Which is all it did.....at first.

[Myth]

How can one say that Germany is nothing? This is absurd. Even after being torn to bits by the allies and russians in WWII it is still the beating heart of Europe economics wise. It is THE country to talk about when we are talking manufacturuing. German cars and industrial machines are a staple for quality, not American ones.

Germany was divided, a lot of intellectuals and scientists were moved to either the USSR or the USA. Most of the inventions claimed to be done by the USA are actually done by European (and mostly German) scientists.

That Germany waged sucessfull war in WWII versus so many opponents is a feat of military prowess which the USA has not even come close to matching. All your wars were versus two-bit third world countries. And even then you sometimes got your arses handed to you (Veitnam). In fact, if Hitler had not spared the British troops the war might have been a tad bit harder, especially since the USA and Canadian navies suffered heavy losses to German submarines.

It is also a fact that the heavy lifting in WWII was done by Soviet troops, and the fall of the Wehrmacht was due mainly to lack of minerals and fuel to resupply the armoured corps and Luftwaffe. Is their modern army not up to the same standard? Probably. But they have they industrial capabilty and the discipline to get back at it if they WANTED to. But warmongering and stealing resources is left to other powers...

How can a country which has FEMA camps, Detroit, inbred hillbillies, a moronic "2 of the same" party system and children's beauty pagents think itself the best thing to grace God's earth after sunlight and fertile soil? Wait, you grace the soil with Monsanto's poisonous GM crops and give yourselves cancer. I guess that qualifies you.

What about your economy then?

USA GDP - Mar 31, 2013 13.75 trillion

And here is your debt, which is a figure I can't even prononunce.

Some econonomy...

[Husar]

USA GDP - Mar 31, 2013 13.75 trillion

And here is your debt, which is a figure I can't even prononunce.

Some econonomy...

The debt is 16 billion if you use a proper system of counting.

Using the anglo system it's 16 trillion, so a bit higher than their GDP, about two months' wages for the average hard-working burger flipper.
All the money was spent winning the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan though, so it was absolutely worth it since Bush was also better than Obama because he bailed out the banks.

[Myth]

Yes. Let's bail out Goldman Sachs because giving the guys who make money out of thin air even more money is a good idea.



Also this.